I have a D+ account too because I get it for free with my cell phone account with Verizon. I never watch it because I don’t have any interest in Marvel, Star Wars or actual Disney content. I was super interested in the Beatles thing and it ended up boring the hell out of me. Literally any other streaming service would have been a better choice for me.
Others have already pointed out that the dwarfs were still being made fun of in Snow White, but even if they weren’t, there is still harm to minorities in stereotypical portrayals, even if it’s positive.
If the only Black roles in movies were as friendly servants, would that be OK as long as they were portrayed as hard working and loyal?
Poe’s Law strikes again!
Thanks for the clarification, I retract my eye roll!
They were certainly comic relief but they were far from being only comic relief, nor do I recall the humour arising merely from the fact that they were dwarfs.
Because they are dwarfs? or were they being made fun of whilst also being a dwarf?
It is a while since I watched it, I don’t recall the former but certainly there was the latter.
I could be wrong.
Did you read the rest of my post where I said it doesn’t really matter if they are being made fun of or not?
Yes, but I think it does really matter what actually happens.
No, it would not be OK, but I was not aware that the only roles for dwarfs are as imaginary beings that are hard working, compassionate, loyal, brave, loving, funny underground engineers.
I’d say it was very arrogant for any of us to decide for all dwarf actors what roles should or should not be open for them or to presume to decree whether what is being portrayed is damagingly stereotypical or not.
Ask a range of dwarf actors what their view is on this and you’ll get a range of opinion. To assume unanimity on this would be extremely demeaning.
Peter Dinklage was perfectly entitled to sound off on it and others who would rather like such roles are equally entitled to tell him to speak for himself and/or fuck off.
Of course. But i think it is odd to ask only dwarf actors, and not ask a range of dwarfs. Peter Dinklage’s position is not that the role would have hurt dwarf actors, after all, but all dwarfs. And only a tiny fraction of dwarfs are actors or would have had any chance of benefiting from the roles. Whereas potentially a great many dwarfs would have been injured.
I think its a bad idea to tear down a different product or fanbase to promote your product.
Whether its Rings of Power with Tolkein or LOTR (A fringe example)
Or Bud Light “Our product is fratty and out of touch”
or “Its not 1937 anymore. And the prince is a stalker”
What is hurting the dwarfs? The existence of the product? The fact that many would suffer “What up Dopey!!” No matter how positive these dwarves may be presented? ( I have no idea how the ‘magical people’ will be presented)
I acknowledge the mere existance of the 1937 cartoon has caused little people AND plain ol short people to have been called Bashful and Dopey and Doc for ages.
But how many short people suffered “Tyrion!! My man!!”? or “Ahhh…the half-man approaches.” Dinklege didn’t do little people any favors there no matter how positively Tyrion is presented.
The point will still stand. You will also get a range of opinion from the population more broadly and I’m not sure where that gets you. What are you going to do with that mixed bag of opinions?
Disney clearly think it is perfectly possible to write a single part for a single dwarf actor that one assumes steers clear of harmful stereotypes, so why not do the same for another six?
Write another six compelling and fully rounded characters that are both closer to the original story and at the same time showcase the talent of an underrepresented group of actors. If you aren’t going to do that in a live action remake of Snow White then that seems like missing a representation open goal.
To have just the one dwarf actor in this situation, for me, just smells of tokenism, it’s the very minimum that they think they could get away with. Call me a cynic but I suspect it would not be too hard to recreate the conversation that went on in the casting meeting.
“I didn’t have to hold your ladder.”
That was a new one.
It becomes harder to have fully rounded characters the more you add something. You only have so much time, and it takes more time to avoid stereotypes than to use them. Even if it is doable, it would still need basically a complete rewrite of the story.
I’m not even sure they’re doing it so-called “woke” reasons. I suspect they want to avoid trampling on the animated characters. They don’t want to have them be the stereotypical versions, but they also don’t want to rewrite them to be different in a movie that’s targeted at kids. Hence they’re replacing them with new characters.
I also, BTW, have zero problem with the actress not being extremely pale. Especially once I learned that Blanca Nieves is a beloved character in the Latino world. There are other possible explanations for the name.
But it is weird to keep the seven dwarfs in the name if they’re not dwarfs. The only way I can make sense of it is if they’re going to redefine the word “dwarf.”
I actually saw that…a review called it Coen-esque…which is what I thought…uhhh…NO. It was not Coenesque except maybe the cast. It was unrelenting emotional pain.
Fair point, maybe “fully rounded” is too much of a stretch once you get above a certain amount of characters but it is certainly possible to do more with a large cast than merely present them in one dimension.
and it takes more time to avoid stereotypes than to use them
I don’t think it takes anymore screen time, it just takes more effort. You just need to take the most basic of steps to avoid them.
However, I think you miss the point. There are already seven characters in the movie, any concerns or challenges about writing non-sterotypical parts for seven dwarf side-characters are already present for the seven existing characters.
There would be no need to do anything differently, they’d just be charged with taking the same care that they (preseumably) are already taking, just do it for an extra six dwarfs rather than the characters they chose.
Sure, I think it is too late for that but I was more passing comment on what I see as a mis-step. They could’ve done much better.
And yet, remarkably, it’s classed as a comedy. Maybe a dramedy. But I agree with you about the unrelenting emotional pain.
“Penelope said ‘begets? “
It certainly didn’t require the…use of a person of short stature… for the part, but I think Dinklage did an awesome job in that moviefilm.
I presume that only some of the “dwarfs” are going to be rounded characters, and the rest will be background characters. That’s easier to do if they’re all new characters, and thus not anyone’s favorites. They can get away with making some of the characters more gimmicky.
Furthermore, they don’t have to worry about anything being a little person stereotype if it’s not being done by a little person. The same way that, say, a movie that has no Irish characters in it doesn’t have to worry about accidentally stumbling upon an Irish stereotype.
I’m not saying it would be impossible to do things better, but I also note that these are not Disney’s headline movies. Disney puts less effort into these live action remakes. There’s a reason so many wound up on streaming. People don’t even really think of these live action remakes as “the latest Disney movie.”
They just have the two categories: the ones that are faithful to the original, and the ones that go off and do their own thing. And this one is doing the latter.
And, of course, also enjoying the publicity. I suspect many people would not know about this movie without the controversy. The live action remakes kinda run together in the public consciousness. People don’t even know about all of them.
See I’m not convinced that doing so would be particularly difficult.
That’s true but that path takes us to the same destination and I don’t think anyone would say that it is best to avoid depictions of Irish people at all. In fact I’d argue that it is sometimes not even desireable to completely avoid stereotypes as long as the character is not merely a stereotype.
Indeed, The Banshees of Inisherin could be accused of peddling multiple Irish stereotypes, revelling in them in fact, and is none the worse for doing so.
Whereas The Rings of Power made much of it’s multi-ethnic casting and progressiveness and yet still managed to drop a horrendous clanger in its depiction of “oirish” travellers.
Yeah, don’t read me as saying this is what Disney should do. I’m guessing why they chose what they chose, rather than saying it was the best choice.
As I said, I think removing the dwarfs was a bad idea. If they’re going to do this film, I think they should have little people. Just hire little people and maybe a diversity specialist who can monitor for any potential issues.
Again, my best guess is that they chose this route for the publicity.
Perhaps, but I’d be concerned that a “diversity specialist” (god help us) would be tempted to cut anything that was even remotely negative about a minority character and that just delivers us a one-dimensional depiction via a different route.
Just set out to write a good character. Make them by turns good, evil, dynamic, comedic, dramatic, smart, thick etc. Write them well enough and I’ll not even notice their immutable characteristics.
The biggest crimes for me is laziness, safety, predictability and tokenesim.