Phlosphr, you are a fucking idiot (re: home birth)

Except that the “other innocent person” is the mother herself, who I’m sorry, has a right to some degree of self-preservation.

Not immunizing your kids puts my kid at risk. Way stupider.

We didn’t come to home birth because we have a deep seeded hippy side to us. It was 6 months into the pregnancy that we changed out plans. My wife was originally all for lots of drugs, but the more we learned during the course of the pregnancy the more we realized that we wanted specific things for said pregnancy and that finding doctors or hospitals who would be willing to do things like, let me wife labor in whatever position she chose, or not give her drugs when she tells them not to, was going to be difficult to say the least.

Home birth isn’t for everyone, but my wife was very low risk and we changed our plan, again, with the help and guidance of a qualified OB as well as possibly the most well respected Midwife west of the Mississippi.

Why did you even take the castor oil, NAF? Or why did your wife, I guess.

I’m opposed in general to labor induction methods, even supposedly “natural and gentle” ones like castor oil. If the baby’s not ready, the baby’s not ready. And if the baby isn’t ready but needs to be born anyway for whatever reason, I think medical supervision of some sort is probably in order.

I accounted for that in my response.

“Let this baby die or there is some possible set of circumstances under wgich I myself will die in the future” is not that compelling an argument to me (but please allow YM to V, and please be prepared to potentially serve some time if you are an OBGYN doctor (or pay huge damages if the mom later changes her mind)).

See, the thing is, it’s super easy to get pregnant without intending to, especially if you don’t have access to birth control, and it’s super easy to die from attempting a vaginal birth after cesarean, especially if you’re in a place that doesn’t offer great medical care. Her likeliness of dying in a few years from this situations is far, far higher than the likeliness of Philosphr’s baby dying during delivery, which you’re jumping all over his ass for.

And I’m the most pro-life person you’ll ever find on this boards, so you’re not talking to someone who is flippant about babies dying. That’s why I’ve been yapping on this homebirth issue for the last two days.

Very long story short: my wife’s water broke with a high leak. The ob was fine with waiting 48 hours from the time of the tear but jot a minute longer. At 28 hours or so my wife was having some contractions but not many and they were short and far apart. The midwife was on her way from the moment we knew labor started but like I said she labored quickly once it got going and there were other circumstances that caused things to go weird.

Also, for the record had we planned a hospital birth things would not have been a whole lot different. We wouldn’t have gone to the hospital until my wife was well into first stage labor and we wouldn’t have called an abmulabce because we would have left before transition but the way things went transition would have happened in the car, due to road constriction that day, and the rest would probably have been about the same since transition lasted all of 15 minutes and the baby flipped breech in labor.

Actually castor oil does stimulate contractions. It is a stimulant laxative which works by causing strong contractions in the colon. Stimulant laxative are usually the last resort for constipation in pregnancy after fiber, stool softeners etc. because of this effect. Strong contractions in the colon can cause sympathetic contractions in the uterus. It has been an old wives remedy for exactly this reason.

Right. Like I said it makes you poop and the pooping causes contractions. It doesn’t work directly on the uterus. That is what I said isn’t it? I was typing with a touch of anger so maybe I wasn’t clear.

Nice rant earlier, but why did your wife take Castor Oil again? Was she badly constipated? No, you administered two doses of Castor Oil to try and induce labour since your OB had told you that your wife would need to go to the hospital for a c-section if she wasn’t in labour by that evening because of complications with the way her water broke. So yes, things would have gone a lot differently if you had not done everything in your power to avoid a c-section, at great risk to your baby, including your wife resisting the paramedics and assaulting the doctor at the hospital. Your child survived despite all your efforts, I guess that’s something to be proud of. :rolleyes:

Here was your summary of the experience:

Yay, you screwed everything up so badly that there wasn’t even time for a c-section and people actually thought your baby was dead, good job.

Took captor oil with the blessing of said OB to avoid a c section in what had been a totally normal routine birth up to that point. Like I said, my daughter was head down when labor started my wife was uber low risk.

Do you understand what the complications with how her water broke were? Just curious because I think you don’t actually know much about the subject of birthing making you more or less unqualified to participate in this thread.

Do you understand that you attempted to induce labor by chemical means?

Get off your high horse. You induced. Which according to you = failure and/or evil, so I can understand why you wouldn’t be able to admit it.

The induction process you used had certain negative repercussions which were common and expected, except for the fact that you were not informed about what they would be. (powerful, painful contractions, and, I assume, shitting oneself, since violent diarrhea follows castor oil)

By the way, I am not trying to advocate for anyone to have home birth here. It’s right for some people, not for others every birth is different. I am simply trying to prevent someone from using my daughter’s birth story as a reason to avoid home birth.

Yes, it’s a story where nearly everything went wrong. All sorts of weird stuff happened, and my daughter is healthy and happy now. Much of this weird stuff would have happened if we had attempted *any *form of natural child birth. Unless you are advocating that all children be born by C-Section, you don’t have much of an argument using our birth experience. That’s actually why I think it was a good story for Phlosphr to hear, and letting Phlosphr hear it is the only reason I posted it on this board at all.

I am not really interested in debating the merits of home birth vs. hospital birth, I just don’t want people twisting around things that I have said to support their own ignorant knee jerk opinions. Hence the rant was about mistakes in interpretation of my words, not about home birth in general.

You misunderstand. Induction doesn’t equal fail. Shit happens, sometimes you have to use interventions. That isn’t my point. My point is that this was a preferable form of intervention, with everything that we knew at the time, to pitocin or c-section. If we needed to section or use pitocin we would have done that too. At the time that my wife was directed by her medical advisers including her OB to take castor oil neither of those seemed necessary. Had they the OB would have had her in for a section immediately rather than signing off on the castor oil.

Our using castor oil wasn’t some wacky thing we just decided to do. That is the only reason I even posted, so I could defend our reasoning and the choices we made at the time. Had my post not been brought up you wouldn’t be hearing from me at all.

Missed the edit. I also take exception to being told that I nearly killed my child. Considering that I actually thought my child had died that day, and that it turned out there was never any real danger to *her *it’s in rather poor taste. There was real danger to my wife, but that is a different matter.

Leaking amniotic fluid for a long period of time before active labour starts carries an increased risk of infection and possibly a prolapsed cord since the cushion for the baby is removed, which is why your OB set a 48 hour window. But hey, inducing labour in a hospital setting with monitoring and supervision is bad and inducing labour with Castor Oil at home with an inexperienced doula in attendance is good, since there isn’t any possible way to end up with a dreaded c-section at home.

Sarahfeena - I said before, this midwife does not have a fear of transferring…meaning, she has no problem transferring. That…she has transferred many, many times. One story I did share was that she was asked to not to transfer for a particular woman who stated, “you’d have to hit me over the head with a frying pan to get me to go to a hospital”. Like the ones who are adamant about being in hospitals, some home birth folks are adamant about being out of the hospitals…
This is not us. :slight_smile:

NAF, I think the objection is that you seem to have counted it as a successful homebirth solely due to the fact that you ultimately avoided a c-section which you surely would have had if you had been at the hospital. Whereas, to some of us who don’t want close calls and don’t want to have to be told by a midwife trainee that our baby is dead when she’s not and don’t want to have a risky delivery because there isn’t time for a c-section and don’t want to be traumatized by unexpected emergency vaginal exams think it doesn’t really sound at all like a successful homebirth at all.

Uh huh. And calories don’t make you fat and guns don’t kill.

Let’s examine what I said and what you said.

Not a good sign. Remember that the second dose was at 10:30 a.m.

So you’re right, there wasn’t even a midwife with you when your wife took the 2nd dose of castor oil, your doula was, and I am off a month of the timing of her certification. So contractions are irregular, no monitoring equipment and contractions are 5-6 minutes apart.

Something’s wrong. The midwife is still 30 minutes away. But she tells you to hold on.

I read that 20 minutes as the time spent travelling from NAF’s house to the hospital. If I’m wrong and that “20 minutes of trying not to push" and "most pain she has ever experienced in her whole life” means time between leaving NAF’s house and pushing, sorry. But it doesn’t change the story much.

They lucked-out, the baby and mom are healthy. That’s good. And I was wrong about the time his wife was in the ambulance, but she was in the worst pain of her life for 20 minutes between being told by the paramedics not to do so and being able to push. I was also wrong in that the actual midwife didn’t show up until the mother was being loaded in the ambulance, but the doula, who was a month away from being a midwife, was there. I’ll say one of us looks retarded, and you had it right when you said you sound like a lunatic.

Also: Didn’t you say your wife had horrible painful contractions after the castor oil?

edit: Just saw the last post. Yeah, that’s what I thought. Fucking selfish moron. That shit is child abuse.