These two words were listed in a online rhyming dictionary, though they’re not what I would consider a rhyme because their classification as a rhyme comes from sharing identical sound instead of a similar sound.
Maybe I’m wrong. But if I’m right and they’re not rhymes, is there a name for words that end with the same exact syllables?
They rhyme, but not in the traditional sense;think HipHop.
That could be “consonance”:
From here.
Rhymes do share identical sounds.
With rue my heart is laden
For golden friends I had
For many a rose-lipt maiden
And many a light-foot lad.
A.E. Houseman
There is this :
How is that not a rhyme? A “perfect rhyme” is one in which the stressed vowel sound and following subsequent sounds are identical. In this case, the stress falls on the antepenultimate syllable, and both words satisfy the above conditions. It’s a dactylic perfect rhyme, as far as I can see.
Actually, triple rhyme might be a better term for it. But, yes, it’s a rhyme, and a full rhyme at that.
Well, I guess I was wrong. I thought a rhyme was more than just exact repetition. If nothing else I learnt something today.
Just for clarification, though, I’ll explain my misunderstanding. To use Jimbuff’s example, maiden and laden contain an identical sound (den) but I would consider the first syllable to be what makes it a rhyme. If they didn’t sound similar then you would just be repeating the den sound, the equivalent to rhyming a word with the same word. I wouldn’t have thought that was a rhyme.
EDIT: By my logic: norm and warm rhyme (same sound but different first letter). Normcore and warmcore rhyme (only one of those is made up). Hardcore and metalcore don’t.
But the more I think about, even if I was right, the two words fit my definition anyway. I just have to look at the rhyme not as “graphy” and “graphy”, but “tography” and “ography”.
By this definition, any word rhymes with itself. But using the same word to rhyme with itself in two lines of poetry is commonly seen as a poetic flaw of some sort, isn’t it?
I’m almost sure I’ve seen a specific term for the kind of rhyme OP is talking about, but it’s escaped me in my demented old age. Anybody?
Maybe you’re thinking of “feminine rhyme”?
I’m not sure that there are any hard and fast rules about rhyme. If it sound as if it rhymes, and poetry really needs to be read aloud, then it rhymes. If it doesn’t it doesn’t. It can still be poetry of course.
Popular music has an endless choice of good, bad and indifferent. My favourite is by Gilbert O’Sullivan in Nothing Rhymed.
Then perhaps the definition should be that two words rhyme if they sound identical from the stressed vowel to the end, but sound different prior to the stressed vowel.
They don’t rhyme in Pulakamell’s definition either: “ardcore” and “etalcore.” The line is drawn at the vowel sound in the stressed syllable.
For “photography” and “biography,” the stressed vowel is “o,” so it’s “ography,” not “graphy” or “tography.”
Barbara Mandrell used to drive me crazy. I love her voice, but the lyrics of her songs almost rhymed, but not quite. There was just enough difference to grate on my nerves, like fingernails on a chalkboard. Wish You Were Here was arguably the worst offender.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Otherwise, it’s an identity or identity rhyme.
My bolding, twice. There is so much agreement in the world and people still want to argue…
I wasn’t arguing with Pulykamell (sorry for the misspelling). I was emphasizing the part of the definition that HowSoonIsThen appeared to have missed.
In this case, yes. Generally a proper rhyme will include the accented syllables of the words, or in cases where a rhyming element comprises multiple small words, the natural stress in the phrase should match up to the accent or stress in the other line. den and den in JimBuff’s example isn’t a rhyme at all, since in many if not most dialects the “e” is barely articulated if not eliminated altogether (e.g. to me “maid’n” and “laid’n” would seem a more phonetically accurate way of spelling those words. YMMV by a continent or two since I note your use of “learnt”, betraying a non-North American dialect.)
The Wiki article on the subject provides examples for numerous categories of rhymes. However, the article doesn’t seem to mention another important article, which is that rhymes comprising different parts of speech are usually more pleasing or satisfying than those that don’t. So going back to JimBuff’s example, you’ll notice that, in both alternating couplets, the two rhyming elements (“maiden”/“laden” and “lad”/“had”) each comprise a noun and a verb respectively. By this standard, given that any two “-ography” words are almost certainly both nouns, they will result in a poor and esthetically unsatisfying rhyme. I don’t have a cite for this other than having read it in a textbook[sup]1[/sup] many years ago. I may still have the book somewhere around here, and if so I will provide a citation.
The discussion goes on to describe rhymes comprising phonetically identical, but different words or sequences, e.g. “heard / herd”, “led” / “lead” (the metal), or even “ice cream” / “I scream”. This, the author said, was perhaps the highest and best type of rhyme.
In this context, the requirement of different words excludes word pairs in which the two words belong to different parts of speech only because a noun got verbed or vice versa-- like dust or police.
[sup]1[/sup]This was a small volume containing the General Prologue of the Canterbury Tales in addition to a very short grammar of Middle English and a brief discourse on the principles of rhyme and meter.
I was referring to my own definition in that example, not pulykamell’s. Essentially, I was conceding that even if you were to use my definition of rhyme, they still rhyme. I’d just been looking at it the wrong way.
One of the definitions of end ryhme is
Which would cover the biography/photography question in the OP.
Oh, okay. I thought you were saying that “hardcore” and “metalcore” rhyme under Pulykamell’s definition but not yours. I was pointing out that they don’t rhyme under either. Sorry about that.