“Mouth-watering”. Maybe a nicer way to say ‘salivating’ which is more vulgar, but then ‘mouth-watering’ is nearly as bad. Why would I want to suggest an uncontrollable bodily function reacting to the sight or smell of food is somehow desirable? The phrase conjures the image of a dog drooling while awaiting a treat.
'Zactly. Though given the tenor of this thread, that idiom may attract a peeve of its own.
More “K, less gweet” in my personal flavor of 'Merkin, but it’s a popular one for sure no matter how it’s pronounced in detail.
Putting pre- on the front of words that don’t need it. The biggest offenders are pre-drill and pre-drilled. Drilled means the holes have been made, the holes are there. The -ed suffix says so. There is absolutely no reason to add the pre- to drill or drilled.
If pre- is a prefix meaning “before”, what really does it mean to “before drill” holes?
Except when they are, in fact, asking for a friend (generally one who doesn’t participate in social media but needs to find something out, sell something, shop for something.)
I first heard this in its native habitat: a 1970 school assembly with a drug expert. There got to be so many questions that started with “So if a friend of mine…” and “A friend wanted to know…” that it immediately became a trope.
And the presenter couldn’t keep from answering: “Well, tell your friend she needs to clean up her act. Like immediately… she’s headed for trouble.” And chuckling as he started asking for the next question with “Okay, who else has a friend with a problem?”
What they really are is “drilled pre-delivery”.
Try this. A product is sold in two forms: a box of loose parts and a box with the same parts assembled at the factory into a ready-to-use product.
The second is often called “pre-assembled”. Which fits right in your peeve.
The point is the “pre-” is actually connected to the moment and condition of the user as they’re reading the words. IOW, the item is assembled pre-my reading the info on the box. Or pre-my unpacking the box.
Do you have a better suggestion that still fits in just a couple of words? Sure we can turn it around and have the unassembled version say something like “requires assembly” or “requires drilling”. But that’s a negative statement, describing a feature the product lacks. That’s not good product packaging design.
What’s a “pre-fab shed”? Strictly linguistically, it’s a shed in the condition of not yet being assembled, and maybe not even in the condition of being anything but raw logs and metal ingots. It literally has not been fabricated yet. But we all know what the term means. A shed where all steps short of connecting the few final subassemblies is already complete before you buy it.
Ultimately, IMO pre-whatever has become an idiom. It means what people agree it does, not what it appears literally to say. Maybe it’s an idiom whose origin story peeves you. But I submit it’s one we’re stuck with because it’s so darn useful.
Although I thank you for pointing this out; I had to think awhile to clearly get the peeve and understand the decode of what’s really going on. I am surprised how much I’ve used that formulation with zero awareness of the problems in it.
I was there then too. That’s how it got started. Or at least how it got popularized big time.
Lawyers have been doing the similar “Asking on behalf of a client” schtick since time immemorial. Even if the “client” for this particular question is themselves.
All the Brits I knew in Thailand did pronounce it as “fort.”
My 1979 dictionary’s entry for “forte” has only the “fort” pronunciation.
But the following word entry is for “forte”, the music instruction for “loud”, which is pronounced for-tay. Could be where the confusion stemmed from.
Bolding mine. I think that’s a very good linguistic perspective on why we tend to use that apparently redundant prefix. Perhaps one of the most common uses of all is “pre-existing condition”. As George Carlin might have asked, “how is this different from an ‘existing condition’? Is a ‘pre-existing condition’ a condition you got before you got the condition?” But as your observation suggests, “pre-existing condition” emphasizes a condition you had prior to the all-important moment of signing the health insurance contract. As with any insurance, the concepts of “before” and “after” matter a great deal. Of course it’s unethical, immoral bullshit when it comes to health care, but it does make linguistic sense.
Reminds me of the doubly redundant “pre-prep”.
All the “pre” usages–pre-assembled, pre-drilled, pre-existing, etc.–could be made crystal-clear by using “already” instead of “pre.” This product arrives already-assembled, already-drilled. Your medical condition, at the time you sign for your new insurance, is already-existing.
It’s still redundant. But it’s clear. Whereas I’m wondering about the “pre-assembled” usage with regard to deceptive-advertising laws. Could a seller claim that their ad, which says ‘this bicycle is pre-assembled’ and leads buyers to think they won’t have to put it together, actually means ‘this bicycle is a collection of parts that you have to put together’—due to the ambiguity of the “pre” usage?
I still don’t see what already-drilled says that drilled doesn’t.
I assume this is a reference. But my first instinct was that it was an attempt to turn Giuliani’s first name into a Karen-like meme.
Since you seem to have it figured out…was it supposed to be funny? How so?
My mind jumped to an insult on Rudy Giuliani, like saying he has the mental facilities of a fifth grader.
But I assume I’m completely wrong. It’s just that he’s the only Rudy that comes to mind right now.
Heck, I thought you actually figured out the joke.
Pre-order.
This makes me twitch. Order, damnit, order.
That’s another one of those idiomatic ones; a pre-order is a subtype of an order, in that a pre-order is something you’re ordering before the release, while a garden variety order is understood to be after the product is released.
I’ve always heard it in terms of software- putting in a pre-order is ordering it before you can actually use it. Like if you were to order Cyberpunk 2077 today, it would be a pre-order. But if you order it on Thursday, it’s just a regular order, since it’s will have been released on that date.
I wish people would realize that “criteria” is a plural noun. The singular is “criterion.”
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but I nominate referring to male genitalia as “junk”.
mmm