"Pillow Angel" AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGHGHGH

[Robin_Goodfellow]

@Jayn_Newell

You know, if this were a single procedure done by itself, I’d probably agree with you. I think part of the reason for it was a kind of “Well, since we’re here anyway…” Doing it now is a much simpler and safer procedure than doing it after her body has fully matured, and since she was having surgery anyways she only had to go through one recovery period. With the family history of cancer and her future comfort in mind, this was probably the most humane option.

This is a good point, and is the crux of the ambiguity toward the surgeries in my mind. I mean: yes, a large part of the danger in surgery comes from the anesthesia, so it’s better in the long term to go ahead and perform preventative treatments with the rest of them. I suppose the coincidence inherent in that structure is a good part of why Ashley’s nickname creeps me out.

While I don’t think this had much if anything to do with the procedure, for those around her a younger-looking body is probably easier to deal with on an emotional level. When you see an adult body, you instinctively want to deal with the person on an adult level–this will never be possible with her. Having a child’s mind in an adult body, however functional, is all kinds of messed up in my opinion.

It is, indeed. As I mentioned, I have to find some of the positives in the misfortunes of nature in order to keep my sense that the world is just - which is basic psychology. The surgeries opted for by Ashley’s parents take away part of that for me. A child’s mind in an adult body is indeed messed up, but a prenatally stunted mind is a lot less disturbing than a surgically stunted body for the sake of matching, at least to me.

@Audrey Levins

If I got saddled with a living tragedy like this poor girl, I would not only have to babysit a 6-month-old without any hope of raising her into a normal human being, but I would have to deal with zealous ignorant do-gooders like Robin Goodfellow who think they have the fucking right to an opinion on what will make my life, and my child’s, a bit less tragic.

Because nothing is more fun in life than debating horrifically difficult choices with someone who has never faced them.

Y’know what? You’re exactly right. I should be more respectful when I’m talking directly with someone who’s dealt with the emotional pain of having to make tough decisions for their child on the basis of how that child looks. I’m really sorry about your problem, Audrey Levins, and I wish you the best of luck in the future.

Oh, wait… you mean you don’t have a child with severe cerebral palsy? Well great, that was a big fat waste of my mental investment and time. Because nothing is more fun than debating horrifically difficult choices with someone who has never faced them.

And yes, actually, I do have the fucking right to an opinion. I’ve backed it up the best I can, and I’ve repeatedly qualified that my reaction is partially emotional. I’ve learned some things and listened closely to those who explain why their views differ. Screw you for a bag of chips if you’re not capable of the same.

[Miller]

@Robin Goodfellow

And yes, actually, I do have the fucking right to an opinion.

No, you don’t. Shut up and go away, you ignorant twit.

[The_Weird_One]

@Miller

No, you don’t. Shut up and go away, you ignorant twit.

The hell? Of course she has the right to a fucking opinion. That doesn’t mean you have to agree with it, or even respect it. But all Robin’s said is how she feels about the “Ashley Treatment” and why. Some of us are explaining why we disagree and trying to get Robin to change her opinion. And others of us are being assholes. Which, like having an opinion, is your right.

[Miller]

Well, keep in mind, my reaction was “partially emotional,” which apparently means that I get to say what ever sort of fucked up thing I want and get away with it.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Miller

Well, keep in mind, my reaction was “partially emotional,” which apparently means that I get to say what ever sort of fucked up thing I want and get away with it.

Indeed you do, you fucking scab on a $4 whore’s twat after the fleet’s left port.

[Miller]

Please.

Five dollars, at the very least.

[redtail23]

I would have to agree that I find the “Pillow Angel” nomenclature to be incredibly creepy. However, if it makes things better for these people, then more power to them.

I have very limited experience with disabled children, but based on that experience, I can fully understand why parents would choose to do this.

A close friend since childhood has a mentally/emotionally/physically handicapped sister. She is much, much, much more functional than Ashley, but she is mentally and emotionally equivalent to a very young child.

Puberty was extremely traumatic for this girl. She DID NOT understand what was happening and she never retained the explanation. She was terrified every month when her period started and had to have it all explained over again. She was completely miserable when she had cramps and didn’t understand why she felt so bad or that it would only last a few days. Since she was in a co-ed group home, there was also concern about pregnancy once she found out about sex.

This went on for many years, until Depo Provera became available and worked to stop her periods. I know for a fact that if her parents could have gotten her a hysterectomy, they would have done it in a heartbeat - and her life would have been much better and happier and safer as a result.

I can only imagine how gods-awful it would be to deal with that situation in a child who can’t even comprehend the explanation to start with. At least Patsy’s parents could explain it to her and that would work for a little while.

I currently know a couple who have a child similar to Ashley. He is completely blind, completely deaf, profoundly retarded, and has various physical problems. He just turned 18. His dad is a big guy. Jason’s never going to be as large as his father, but he’s taller than his mom and outweighs her.

This has made it increasingly difficult for these folks to care for their son. It has required the purchase of extremely expensive lift equipment and complete remodeling of a bathroom, just so they can keep him clean. It has made it nearly impossible for his mother to move him anywhere, even inside the house. It has made taking him out anywhere much more difficult. These difficulties will only increase with age, both his and theirs.

They want to keep their son at home and take care of him as long as he lives, just like they’ve always done. That may become impossible at some point in the future, due simply to his size.

Would they have opted to stunt his growth if that option had been available? I don’t know, and don’t know them well enough to ask myself (they’re friends of a friend), but based on other conversations I’d bet it’s a good possibility. If I get a chance, I’ll see if the question can be asked.

I think that you folks who are going on about the “principles” involved have simply never known anyone who actually had to deal with these types of problems. They live in a very different world than you do, and their principles generally have to do with doing the best they can for their child in a crappy situation.