Pilots: Some Questions from a Novice

Factual Questions
1

I wanted to ask a few questions about becoming a private pilot strictly for enjoyment. First a little background:

I’ve been into flight and flying since I was 10 I think (I’ll be 31 in October). I actually flew my first plane before I drove my first car. I’ve played every release of MS Flight Sim since the early 90s. Its in my blood, but my wallet isn’t large enough to have dived in yet. So to the real life pilots out there:

Is there a less expensive way to learn to fly? Geeze, the absolute best price range I can find is somewhere between $5000 and $7000…and this really isn’t the sort of thing you want to leave to the lowest bidder anyway. I plan on augmenting my training with lots and lots of study before I even go to the airport. As I mentioned I’ve been flying sims since I was very young, and I think I am better prepared than the average student when they start. I understand the basics of how aircraft fly, how they navigate, and how to bring them up and down without crashing. What I need are the details and the certification. I have heard there are two classes of private pilot certifications: Recreational Pilot, and Private Pilot. The guy I talked with insists almost no one gets the recreational pilot license…why? It sounds like it would be cheaper, and I don’t aspire to do much more than take joy flights for a couple of hours considering a cheap plane runs a dollar a minute to rent. There’s probably some very good reason for persuing the Private Pilot license, I’m not sure what though.

I am also concerned about the medical exam that I’ll be required to take. Interesting username aside, I want to be a safe pilot and would never get high before taking off (lol!). I still indulge on occasion at home. I assume there is a drug test to pass the medical, true? I will quit if it means I get my license.

Average length of time from start to finish? Since price is such a problem for me (I need a house and car too!), I may need to really spread out my lessons so I can afford to pay. What would be the longest practical space I could spread the lessons over? One a week? One a month? What was your personal experience with this?

Lastly, I am just curious if (as a real life pilot) you feel the Microsoft Flight Simulator series is of any value in training. Personally I think the latest incarnation (MS Flight Simulator 2004, A Century of Flight) is simply outstanding and an excellent way to get familiar with an aircraft’s instruments and navigation, and has one hell of a pretty view out the window. What do you think?

Many thanks for anyone who can answer some of my questions!

2

As you’ve noted, flying ain’t cheap. A full-scale commercial flight school is probably the most convenient & expensive way to go. For lower-cost alternatives, you might want to investigate the possibility of flying clubs in your area. One point worth noting is that if you have a plane to fly, certified flight instructors are not often scarce and some of these may be willing to instruct you mostly for the chance to be off the ground (and to log the hours). Best general plan would be to start hanging around an airport coffee shop, making friends with the pilots and seeking their advice. Telling a pilot that you’re thinking about learning to fly and would like advice from a local expert is usually a good way to get information.

Hitting the books will definitely help your progress. But there’s a lot of “non-book” learning to be done as well.

I know little about the Recreational Pilot approach – it wasn’t around when I was learning. Don’t rule it out – check out what’s available.

Lots of pilot training seems to make the assumption that you’re on your way to command of a corporate jet or airliner. It sounds neat, but most people aren’t and probably would do better to admit it, as you seem to have done. My interests run toward motorless flight. I feel that for those who fly for recreation (most of us), sailplanes are a better way to go - more interest, beauty and challenge. If there’s a soaring club in your area, by all means check this out. (Prices may be attractive, but don’t assume it will be dirt cheap.)

The 3rd class medical required for power flying (but not for sailplanes) is very simple. There is a urine test, but I don’t think it’s very subtle. Yet I’ll note that very few pilots I’ve known have much to do with recreational drugs – the two hobbies don’t seem to go together.

Time for lessons is an issue. Most people take a number of months, and plenty take a year or longer. You have to fit this into your schedule and your budget; very few people have the money and time to get their license in a month (weather and aircraft availability can also be constraints). Yet if you wait a long time between lessons, your progress gets slowed as you spend part of each lesson re-learning things.

Flight simulators have some real value. But the most basic flying skills are kinesthetic ones that are hard to get via a PC. And the beauty and sense of accomplishment you’ll experience are in my view far beyond what’s possible in front of a screen.

Good luck.

3

Hey Bongmaster-

Our stories are fairly similar, except that I’ve never been high. :wink: I have also been a flight/plane enthusiast since I was young, and I was also a simulator junkie before starting lessons. I am also not rich. Not even close. So, I’ve spaced my training out over about a year 1/2 in order to pay as I go without breaking the bank. Right now I’m about 3 weeks from my private pilot check ride.

I joined a local flying club, which technically makes me a cooperative owner of each of the clubs planes. I pay $55 monthly in dues. My costs above that are $35 hourly for my instructor and $55 hourly for the plane. At that cost I’ve been able to afford about 2 lessons a month. It does add up, but I think I’ll come in considerably under the $5000 figure you mentioned by the time I’m certificated. I only pay for the time the plane’s engine is running, so if I reserve a 3-hour slot and only have the engine running for 2, I only pay $110. Most training flights only require 1 - 1.5 hours of engine-on time.

You definitely don’t want to bargain-hunt. I chose the club where I’ve done my training not only because I thought it was a good value, but because their aircraft maintenance far exceeds legal minimums and they employ excellent instructors, unlike the FBO at the other end of the field which flies jalopies and offers instruction from people who have, themselves, crashed several planes in the last few years. THey also charge more.

By the way, it sounds as if you’ll save money anyway, because you’re interested and will undoubtedly read and study. Most people waste their money by showing up to flying lessons unprepared, and not having digested the last lesson enough to move forward. This means more time and money. If you keep up and do your homework, as I’ve tried to do, you will save yourself a lot.

The reason to go for the private pilot, rather than the recreational pilot, is that the recreational rating is limiting. I don’t have the specifics in front of me, but I believe it limits you to a single passenger at a time (no flights with two of your buddies), limits the kind of flying you can do (no night flying at all??), and prohibits you from flying in many controlled airspaces. Also, I don’t think you can use it as a platform for getting a more advanced rating, like an instrument rating, later on down the line. It sounds like you aren’t interested in that at the moment, but you might be some day.

Most importantly, the stuff that goes into getting the private certificate will make you a safer pilot. It will take a bit longer and cost more, but in my opinion it represents the minimum training for genuinely competent solo flight in an airplane. My experience is that about 30% of my training has been learning how to do things, and the rest has been learning how not to get myself and others hurt or killed. Getting the recreational cert. only skimps on the latter.

Simulators bear no resemblance to actual flying whatsoever, except that you can use them to practice instrument navigation and basic procedures. VFR flying (visual flight rules - the kind you will learn first, no matter what certificate you pursue) is entirely about looking outside the airplane and feeling the airplane through your hands and the seat of your pants. The simulator, even with a force-feedback joystick, eliminates almost all of it. Plus, most don’t offer planes as simple as what you will train in.

For what it’s worth, I was skeptical about my ability to afford this whole process, but I went ahead and plunged in anyway. I have no regrets, and it has been a blast. Also, I’ve grown a lot in the process.

Best of luck.

4

Damn Figaro, thats downright encouraging! I had no idea you could join a club for such a reasonable rate. Does your monthly fee include the cost to take the planes up and down at a fixed amount of time per month?

The recreational pilot thing sounds like a quicker way to get airborne, but I don’t want to limit myself. At some point in the future I’d like to travel with more than one person, probably at night, and maybe even get into IFR as I get better.

Thanks for all the info guys, you gave me some stuff to think about!

5

Nope. They’re just dues. But paying them comes with several benefits:

  1. I’m on the club’s insurance policy, which means that I don’t need renter’s insurance or liability coverage when flying the club’s planes. Those are vital, and expensive.

  2. Because it’s not a commercial operation, the club only charges for actual flight time. If I rent a plane and go away for the weekend (which I can’t do yet, of course, but could after I’m licensed), I only pay for the time I’m flying. An FBO would usually charge a daily “can’t rent it to anyone else while you’re gone” fee.

  3. The club isn’t trying to make a profit from me - just keep the planes and the operation in tip-top shape. So, the hourly fees are reasonable.

6

Yes, definitely investigate finding a club.
My club is set up as a non-profit corporation, you buy a share ($1300 IIRC) and pay monthly dues ($60/month, of which $20 is applied towards flying–that is you pay $60 if you fly 0 hours or $20 worth). Our Cessna 150 (2 seat trainer) rents for $30/hr (tach time, wet) and our 172 & 177 rent for $40/hr (tach time, wet). The planes rent for about 1/2 the price of the nearest FBO (since they use Hobbs time and charge sales tax). Remembe it’s not just the cost of a licence, it is the cost to go flying after you get your licence.

The less time you have between lessons, the less you forget and the less total hours you will need.

Recreational is only like (IIRC) 5 less hours needed than private personally I’d say since you are 95% of the way there, might as well go for private.

I think the urine test is only checking for diabetes.

People sometimes wonder how I afford to fly. These same people eat out every lunch and buy lots of CDs, have low milage vehicles, etc.

Brian

7

Another simulator user checking in here…

Basically, what Figaro and Xema said. They can be great for learning instrument procedures and general flight principles, but they’re no good for VFR flying, no matter how good the scenery is. There are too many tactile inputs necessary, like maintaining the proper pressures on the yoke, etc. and I find the sims way too sensitive. Also, VFR flying requires you to look outside of the cockpit 80% of the time to scan for other traffic. Yes, I know FS2k2 and others have AI traffic, but the density will never approach that of real life. Neither will the risk factor.

However, all that being said, the simulators do have some value, like keeping “your head in the game,” for those times when you can’t fly. They tend to make you fixate on the instruments, which a good instructor (like mine) will simply cover up with a sheet of paper until you learn to look outside.

Oh, and answering your poll questions, it took me about 2 years and well over 60 hours to earn my license. Once a week is about the bare minimum, otherwise your skills tend to degrade.

Best of luck to you!

8

Wow, thanks again for all this great info guys!

As to the usefulness of MS Flight sim, I’ve always thought pretty much along the line of whats being suggested here, that it can be useful for keeping in practice with instruments, but not too good at the VFR part, though that has changed a little with the latest release.

I’m a little surprised at how affordable the club thing can be, especially if you can do something like plan a weekend getaway somewhere remote and only pay for when you are actually in the air. That sounds fantastic and is the culmination of my flying fantasy, to go away by plane (that I piloted) for the weekend.

I’m pretty sure I’ll be skipping the recreational pilot thing. Most people seem to feel that its a bit of a waste since for a little more effort you can get the full Private Pilot certification.

Its also VERY good to know that lessons can possibly be spaced out over the course of a year, I may actually be able to afford payments. And if I can rent planes for under $100 an hour I’d consider that VERY reasonable.

Thanks again for the info guys, I really appreciate it!