Pit Bulls (continued)

AC is notorious for not showing up for HOURS in emergencies - after hours they don’t exist - weekends & holidays - forget about it

http://www.wkrn.com/story/18919032/rutherford-co-residents-upset-over-animal-control-response-time

AC took 2 hours to respond - while human is attack by pit bull

“Broeker admitted his residents have difficulty reaching representatives during emergencies and that officers often respond hours later, if at all.”

Indianapolis: (Indy animal control’s response time is an average of 23 hours)

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009902090365

"After a pit bull showed up on Cathi Wahnsiedler’s front lawn, she called the city and waited patiently for animal control. An officer arrived – three days later.

In the meantime, the Wahnsiedlers, aware that a Northside woman had nearly lost her legs to a pit bull recently, used a side door. Their daughter Lucy, 8, was forbidden to play in the snow outside their Northeastside home. Cathi told her elderly father not to visit. She and her husband took turns calling the city for assistance.

Indianapolis dog catchers respond much more quickly when alerted about attacks, but even then the average response time is 45 minutes

What next? Butterfly nets for police to capture armed felons?

Laughable
When minutes count, AC is just hours away

It’s clear once again writing a reply to you is a waste of fucking time. You’ve failed to demonstrate why it is a relavent statistic as to a dogs danger whether it was shot or not.

After suggesting that a specific group, among which are some who have been posting in this thread, should go hang themselves, I suggest that everyone stops responding to all attempts at turning the Pit into a blog. Maybe Ms. Lynn’s minion will finally get banned for that.

[Moderating]
Wishing death on other posters is against board rules. This is an official warning - your posting privileges are under review.
[/Moderating]

Well spoken

Well written.

You could have substituted Denver for Miami, as well as many other locales.

[Junior Moderating]

That is a specific wish of death? I thought it is more general and just an attempt to be humorously hyperbolic. Then I considered the poster.

Carry on.

[/Junior Moderating]

Imagine that. One SDMB member who has witnesses 2 unprovoked pit attacks on humans.
Very well written.

Thank you & sure. Which is why I wrote “others” and cited the cases I did.

But basically my point is/was that IME with much-maligned breeds it really did come down to the owner. Again, I spent tons of time – which I knew I was able to afford prior to their purchase; these were pure-breeds which I investigated thoroughly prior to purchase – with my dogs. They were never chained or otherwise abused…but from day one they were made aware I was the one not to be trifled with. As a result I had a combined 15 (GDS fell to dysplasia@ 3 1/2 years old) years of the most predictable dogs ever. Never had I once a scare in terms of aggression, human nor animal related. All I had to say was “stay” or a simple pull on their collar for them to do just that. To the point where they just stay behind me if any aggressive dog would confront them – yet I knew if I said “attack” they’d do so until they killed or died. I was fortunate enough to survive a wild dog attack by doing just so with my Doberman – who hadn’t done a thing until given the command.

This is the way I played – amongst many other ways of course – with my girl almost daily: Vicious Doberman Attack. A curt ‘Quieta!’ (or ‘stop’ in English would amaze my friends and family when I said it, for it was an almost pre-reaction it was so quick) & almost family like affection to follow, 110 aroused to minus zero in a nanosecond each and every time. She was the same way towards strangers once I said it was OK and had them throw her a ball or two. Took her to hospitals more than once (old and young alike) where she caused great joy…though I did no special training for it. Guess she was just a people person, and along with my training and confidence, she just loved me as I loved her.

RIP, Silky. You’ll always be in my heart and mind.

As for Tyson, my GDS from much earlier, I both didn’t have the skills that I had when I got Silky, nor was I as patient. Pedigreed as all get-out and paid as much, must admit I wasn’t ready to jump from my Mom’s poodle to a GDS. Any chance he had to get one over me, he would – just like a child. Separation anxiety was a big one…I’d leave for the night and I was sure to come back to a destroyed room, no matter which one it was. That said, we both got to know each other better, and at or about a year old, Tyson was as good and trusty as Silky was – at three months. My nephews, 9 & 11 at the time would boss him around like there was no tomorrow – though I made sure I was always there.

Button line, I always felt I was in control of both dogs – took Tyson lots more, but that could have been on me – and they never, ever let me down.

Could I say the same about Pits? Doubt it. First because I simply don’t like the dog. And secondly and most importantly, because the stats are out.

For the record, I am against guns as well.

Just to interrupt with a moment of cute, check out the Chicago Blackhawks 2014 puppy calendar. :slight_smile:

You can now go back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

First, a moment of silence for cougar 58…

Okay, now that the real nutter is gone, I think it’s time to summarize the problem with this debate: we been focusing on the wrong things. All this back qnd forth about details, emotionally. On both sides. Public policy, regulation, and law should not be based on niggling details and appeals to emotion. It must be based on sound data and reliable science used to calculate the “acceptable risk”. This is the standard way the government considers banning a product or service or substance. How many people are likely to die?

So start there. How does being killed by a dog, any dog at all to start with, stack up against other causes of death as far as lifetime risk? My googling tells me that without considering anything else, just raw calculation of population, deaths, and life expectancy, it’s somewhere between 1-150,000 and 1-300,000, depending on who you ask and hte numbers you are working with. That’s over a lifetime, by any dog, without considering any other factors.

Then we start filtering to be more accurate in the assessment. For instance, bike accidents cause thousands of deaths every year, resulting in a much higher liklihood of dying from a bike accident than from a dog attack. But if you never ride a bike in your entire life, then your risk drops to zero.

With dogs, one of the biggest factors affecting an individual’s lifetime risk of dying from a dog attack is whether they choose to live or work with them. If you are never around them, your chance of being killed by one drops almost to zero. (Since dogs are mobile and can come to you, whereas a bike can’t attack you…). Age is another. Once you are older than about 15, your risk drops enormously. Then there’s a number of other factors that have a smaller but still meaningful impact on the risk.

Finally we get to breed, which cuts the risk again, even if we operate on the assumption that every single report of killer dogs being pit bulls, they are still not responsible for all of the (extremely rare) deaths.

Someone else can crunch these numbers more precisely, but I think it’s extremely reasonable to state that for people who do not themselves choose to own “pit bull type” dogs or associate with such dogs willingly, the risk of death over a lifetime is easily 1-in-however-many-millions-suits-you. I think 1-100 million is probably true.

But even if it is merely 1/million, that is considered an acceptable risk by pretty much any standard.

The risk is obviously higher for those of us who choose to put ourselves in the path of pit bulls, in the same way the risk is far higher of dying from guns if you own one, tobacco if you smoke it, ATVs if you ride them, etc. But I’m an American, and as such I have a great deal of freedom to do many things that endanger my life while posing an extremely low risk to yours if you are making different choices than I am.

It is not reasonable to expect, demand, or seek legislation to try and achieve zero possibility of death or serious injury from a pit bull or anything else that you choose not to have in your life but others do.

This is the only thing that matters. Some of you are apparently very scared of pit bulls and would cross the street to avoid them. You are entitled. But in the context of our legal system, our history, our behavior generally and the actual statistics, you have absolutely no leg to stand on to seek to ban any breed or type, because the stats do not support you.

That is the only genuine way to argue this honestly. Quibbling about all the rest of it is useful for many purposes in regard to the dangers OF dogs and TO dogs and how to reduce them, but it’s total masturbatory bullshit when it comes to arguing for the legitimacy of banning, cuz it just ain’t legitimate.

Word.

Not quite. Forget the rest of the dribble: “I am an American” WTF? Invade nations and/or states that have breed-bans? Talk about nuts…

:confused:
The only reason I framed it like that was to qualify that I was and am speaking about American laws. I often forget that the SDMB (like the internet itself, of course) has an international membership, and I have very little to no knowledge of how it works elsewhere.

What you meant above escapes me utterly…invasions? How did you get that?

“Land of The Free.” And yes, you remain quite confused – trust it’s not catching. As with your pet.

Ah yes, when you have nothing of substance in reply, fall back on that old standby, random sneering. Yes, we’re all very impressed, clearly my point is defeated. I surrender.

There, all better now?

You still haven’t apologized for being reasonable, Stoid. This isn’t fucking GD.

I know a thing or two about incoherent PUI and I’m curious about why you are back from Happy Hour so early. Did they throw you out?

But of course.Pitbull factual attacks notwithstanding.

Have a nut – or three. On me.

You are an utter and complete idiot. Not that it’s news to anyone who’s been here for a while.

Cougar sock in 3 . . . 2. . .