Pit rules have been revised

[E-Sabbath]

@C_K_Dexter_Haven

On the question of no abusive remarks at other posters:
Well, we knew there’d be over-reaction.

Excuse me, Dex, but now I’m insulted. And abused. We’re smart enough to know precisely what is and is not allowed. And we don’t like #2 specifically.

I don’t mind the point on moderator action. But I rather think being able to tell someone to go fuck themselves is entirely appropriate. What do you think we are, children?

Now, I believe I shall wish upon you the need to moderate a full Stormfront invasion, while being unable to ban posters, delete or edit posts, or even use your ignore list. Then, perhaps, you will have the proper perspective on profanity and the need thereof.

Ed, seriously. What would it take to change your mind on rule 2? That’s the bad decision here. While I try not to offend, it’s a bad rule.

A bad rule is one where you know it will be enforced largely in the breach. And you have said you’ll enforce it in the breech, yourself.

[Tastes_of_Chocolate]

@matt_mcl

I have never before posted a message of this kind, but I find this change in the rules, with regard to acceptable content between posters in the Pit, to be foolish and misguided. (I don’t have a real problem with restricting discussion of Board policy to ATMB.)

There was not previously a problem; there is no point in this solution, and it will make life difficult for everyone involved.

The proposed distinction between what insults will and will not be allowed is vague and unworkable, and will serve to create more numerous and unpleasant arguments than it will prevent.

I urge the moderators in the strongest terms to reconsider these rules.

Let me add my signature to this petition. New Rule #2 will quickly prove itself to be untenable. I predict that the ill-will this will create with the current posters will far exceed anything that was predicted, or that the mods and administation wish to deal with.

Unfortunately, I fear this is a sign of TPTB being more concerned with appearances and attracting new customers. I’m afraid that I will be less pleased with being a customer in the future, then I have been with being a member in the past.

I am also finding myself slightly annoyed at the continuing theme of “lighten up, it will work” that I am seeing from TPTB. If a large number of your clients/customers/members express displeasure with how things are being changed, a smart businessman takes heed.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@wring

Thankfully mocking is still allowed.

It is, isn’t it?

:: shrugging ::

See if I’m banned tomorrow.

[DSYoungEsq]

@woodstockbirdybird

If I were you, I’d make sure I never learned.

THIS from someone who posts from OAKLAND??? :p:p:p

[Orbifold]

@Ed_Zotti

Relax.

Do you realize how condescending this sounds? Perhaps you could tussle our hair and tell us not to worry our little heads as you say it for better effect.

[Cisco]

@Starving_Artist

So I respectfully suggest that you either do away with the Pit altogether (which I’m not in favor of) or restore it to its previous self with the exception that mod abuse not be allowed and that mod questions or criticism be limited to ATMB, with ATMB rules in force.

The thing about the ability to tear into the mods here is that - while I admit it was abused A LOT - it was a nice contrast to most other boards on the internet, where so much as politely questioning a moderator’s actions will bring down the banhammer on your unsuspecting head. And ocassionally, it was called for and even productive. Remember when [clown-horn honking] revealed all that [hammering sound] about [slide-whistle]?

[Gadarene]

Orbifold:

Do you realize how condescending this sounds? Perhaps you could tussle our hair and tell us not to worry our little heads as you say it for better effect.

Our pretty little heads.

[Jenaroph]

@wring

Thankfully mocking is still allowed.

It is, isn’t it?

Well, if it’s insulting mocking, it’s fine.
If it’s abusive mocking, it’s right out.

[Miller]

@Ed_Zotti

3. We understand this is a new rule and will take a while to get used to. We hope people will appreciate the intent - we’re trying to establish some minimal level of civility in the Pit. If you think this is impossible, we respectfully disagree. If you think the Pit won’t be any fun any more, I guess we’ll see.

How, exactly will we “see?” How do you plan to measure how much “fun” the pit is? We seem to have established that responses from people who actually use the boards is not going to be considered in how the boards are run, so what other metric are you proposing to determine if your new rule is having a positive or negative effect on the boards as a whole? Or is there no actual intent to make such a determination?

[Cervaise]

@Jenaroph

Well, if it’s insulting mocking, it’s fine.
If it’s abusive mocking, it’s right out.

Well, that just clears things right <comically inquisitive Scooby noise>.

[E-Sabbath]

@Ed_Zotti

2. You’re not going to get banned because you called somebody a cunt. We’ll just tell you to stop. If you keep it up after you’ve been told to stop, then you could have problems, although in the early going we’re not likely to come down on anyone too hard.

Cite for rule being observed in the breach.

As for a biker bar, Ed? No. But really, polite conversation was never polite. Ask Oscar Wilde, or Winston Churchill.

And if you think Groucho Marx never worked blue… well.

Basically, you’re setting a trap that you apparently do not mean to set, and one that is very likely to be triggered in the heat of the moment, which is precisely why the Pit exists.

[wring]

@Orbifold

Do you realize how condescending this sounds? Perhaps you could tussle our hair and tell us not to worry our little heads as you say it for better effect.

Well, condescending apparently is neither abuse nor insulting. :rolleyes:

[Jimmy_Joe_Meager]

@aldiboronti

Or the Hays Code that infantilized the movies for 30 years from the mid-30s. “Male and female posters should always have one leg on the floor when posting from a bed.”

I know your fingers were flying as you typed, and I suspect you meant “posing”, but this just struck me as all kinds of funny. Not picking on you aldiboronti, thanks for the laugh.

[Dr.Drake]

Again, Ed, you seem really dismissive of people’s concerns. Repeatedly saying “relax, nothing is all that different, just be civil” while simultaneously implementing new rules in case of hypotheticals that haven’t played out in the last ten years is… odd, at best.

I don’t need to insult people to make a point, and I don’t particularly enjoy being insulted. But I think “don’t be a jerk” already covers the situations your rule is trying to prevent. Do you have some reason to think that it doesn’t?

[Ed_Zotti]

@Cisco

THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A BBQ PIT?!!! Its whole purpose is to maintain civility in the other forums! GET RID OF IT.

Since you didn’t respond to my last post that I politely asked you to, I’ll try to make sure you see this one:

Please respond, Ed

I didn’t respond to THIS post (till now) because I was responding to your OTHER post. I appreciate your patience.

The question you raise comes up all the time. One of the purposes of the Pit is to let quarreling posters have it out. As I said before, we’re simply establishing the equivalent of the Marquess of Queensberry rules for such things. The idea that rules are impossible is absurd. They have rules for war, where people are trying to kill each other. We’re just talking about a message board.

[Miller]

@Jimmy_Joe_Meager

I know your fingers were flying as you typed, and I suspect you meant “posing”, but this just struck me as all kinds of funny. Not picking on you aldiboronti, thanks for the laugh.

No, I’m pretty sure he meant “posting.” The joke doesn’t work, otherwise.

[krisolov]

@GillianBoardman

I mostly lurk, because typically somebody else has said what I want to say, faster and better than I could. But except for that year that I was flat broke, as in depending on friends to feed me, I have paid my membership fee, because I wanted to be a Doper. Every day when I sign on the first place I go is the Pit. Only after seeking out the most over the top and outrageous insults do I then move on to forums with more social value. The Pit was a special treat, a place I could count on to have some reason to laugh during uniformly bleak days. If its going to be castrated, I fail to see any reason to continue to support this board…because I think we are all really clear that the whole fighting ignorance thing is futile. A noble pursuit, but about as effective as tilting at windmills.

Thank you for saying this Gillian, I agree completely. I see no problem with taking the discussions on the Mods to ATMB, makes sense, but I see no reason to pay to support the rest of the nonsense that’s going on here now.

[Cisco]

I’ve had to do a lot of corporate training, and one thing that comes up pretty often is how not to handle angry customers/clients. The #1 thing that you absolutely do not say under any circumstances, precisely because it sounds so condescending, insincere, and dismissive? “Relax.”

[Cisco]

@Ed_Zotti

I didn’t respond to THIS post (till now) because I was responding to your OTHER post. I appreciate your patience.

The question you raise comes up all the time. One of the purposes of the Pit is to let quarreling posters have it out. As I said before, we’re simply establishing the equivalent of the Marquess of Queensberry rules for such things. The idea that rules are impossible is absurd. They have rules for war, where people are trying to kill each other. We’re just talking about a message board.

I do apologize for my impatience. I mistakenly thought you were going to ignore my questions. However, this really doesn’t explain your actions. The Pit already had rules, so arguing that we want a “no rules” forum and can’t have it is a strawman.

[Fiona_Greenlee]

Are any of these changes (the language one in particular) advertiser driven? I know from experience that some online advertisers will request no profanity - some to the point of requesting a built in filter to change any naughty words to ****.