Exactly–it tells us everything we need to know about Crafter Man that he manages to avoid calling Bush a lying scumbug after the last 8 years, but saves that special priviledge for Obama. Is the latter a big fat liar? Perhaps, but he’s still in double A while Bush was a major league Hall of Famer.
Right, if for no reason other than the fact that Bush lied for 8 years, and Obama has only had 3.5 months’ worth.
I say this in full sincerity: I really don’t think it’s worth investing this much of yourself in it. Demanding respect for an office from people who have no personal stake in it is a fool’s errand (and demanding it from American citizens is arguably even more so). You’re just going to give yourself ulcers. Most of what people say serves no useful purpose. If you were looking for that, then opening a thread on “who to mock” is probably a bad place to start.
You can love your country and still acknowledge and comment on the fact that the President appears to be a knobhead. It doesn’t traduce your service one whit to say so.
Your wife’s right on this one, I’m afraid. 
I getcha.
Dad was in the military, too, from when he was about 19-20 until he retired. He’s a Vietnam vet, and back when it was fashionable to despise them, he got his share of disgusting behavior directed at him. Years later, after his retirement, I asked him about his opinions of the President at the time, Mr. George W. Bush. Dad’s always been more conservative than I am, unsurprisingly.
But his fury took my breath away. He believes in this country – really, truly believes that we are the hope of the world, the best nation that has ever been. He doesn’t have quite the same list as everyone else as to the man’s greatest faults and crimes, but I remember asking him once what he’d do if by some strange chance he had the opportunity to shake the President’s hand.
“I’d get arrested,” he said. “Because I don’t think I could stop myself from punching him in the mouth.”
That said, I think throwing in the odd “DUBYA R DUM” line into a conversation has no merit. We’ve heard, thanks. Next you’ll be telling us that weird stuff happens in Texas.
Because it’s wise to know what one’s opponents are thinking.
This is why it’s so much more convenient to have a separate head of state and a head of government. Nobody bothers to insult the Queen, or Mme. Jean for that matter, and when they insult Stephen Harper there’s no way to take that as an insult against the country or its system of government.
So you never said anything bad about Saddam Hussein or Slobodan Milosevic out of respect for their offices, eh?
Seeing how you don’t live in Iraq or Serbia & Montenegro, and everything.
So freedom of speech is only desirable for Americans?
Yes. What specifically do you think he is lying about?
You’re a fucking idiot.
For one thing, if i make a disparaging remark about a US President, it’s not intended as disrespect towards the office, but towards the individual who holds it. If you don’t like it, i couldn’t give a flying fuck. Also, i don’t have any particular, special respect for the office itself. Sure, it’s a powerful and important position, but it’s one that has been the source of plenty of boneheaded and idiotic decisions and policies, and there are times when it shows itself unworthy of respect.
About the only intelligent thing you’ve said in the whole thread.
I’ve lived in and visited quite a few countries in my life, and i’ve now lived in the US for about 8 years, and i’m always amazed at how many Americans get so het up when someone from another country criticizes the United States or its policies.
From my admittedly unscientific observation, there is probably no country in the world (at least, the Western world) where criticism and disparagement of other nations and their leaders is such a popular pastime—at both an institutional, political level and a more personal, individual level—as in the United States. American politicians, media personalities, and many American citizens feel perfectly free to opine about how crappy other countries and their leaders are, on a regular basis.
If you’re too much of a pussy to take this sort of shit, you probably should stop dealing it out so much.
Bush was a fucking joke. He was an ass clown mouth breathing moron that rose to power on a dubious election (nothing like a supreme court appointed Commander and Chimp) followed by capitalizing on fear from a terrorist attack to attack a country completely unrelated to Osama. Oh and he let Osama get away, and Aghganistan, which enabled Osama’s attack to fall back to the Taliban.
Meanwhile he trashed the economy. He knew about the housing bubble but ran his lying war criminal mouth to focus on Iraq, trashing our budget then our economy.
Oh and don’t forget the innocent people his administration tortured. Including an kiddnapping an innocent Canadian and having sent to Syria to be beaten with cords and brutalized for a year. The only reason he got out was Canada looks after their own.
I guess you’re right. Bush wasn’t a joke. A tragedy and obscenity against all that’s right.
Bush supporters are total scum. Either selfish immoral traitors or complete deluded morons.
Bush did more damage, economically, militarily, and libertarian to America then Al Qaeda could ever dream of. Think about that in your support of the torturing war criminal.
I await your list of Obama lies, or your retraction.
We call people who believe things without proof crackpots.
Call off the dogs. I voted for Obama. I also believe that all politicians lie: that’s a non-partisan non-statement . It’s part of the job description. Given that I believe this, I don’t think you can get nearly as much lying done in 3.5 months as you can in 8 years, so I think Obama is still in the clear for now. Also, I was joking. Re-fucking-LAX.
I just reread the OP, and I noted a dividing line in the arguement:
Up till this point, it’s reasonable: ‘don’t slag the president without a facts, citations and a well constructed argument, sophomoric name-calling is poor form’. Even saying ‘if you don’t live in this country you are less entitled to just reflexively slag the guy’ isn’t unreasonable - Cheney’s hunting buddies or the guy that delivers the paper to the Bushs may be entitled to opinions that people thousands of miles away are not.
At this point I think the original thoughtful poster’s computer was commandeered by a John Birch member, possibly using Conficker:
Here’s where the logic goes off the rails into an 'attack the president = attack ‘Merica’ argument, which is, in my opinion, totally in opposition to the founding principles of the country. The reason there is no US king is partly to avoid the lofty arrogance associated with George III*. The president is a private citizen elected to run the country. He or she is not the incarnation of Uncle Sam.
Since there continues to be available keyboard, the OP then sputters out into ‘My country: right or wrong or STFU’.
(HA! George the 3rd. You were expecting something more Godwin-like, weren’t you)
It’s a terrible aspect of language that “opinion” can sometimes mean “belief.” There are two completely different uses of the word “opinion”:
- I believe Bush is a terrible human, but that’s just my opinion.
- I believe Bush lied us into a war, but that’s just my opinion.
There’s no possible way to cite my first opinion, other than “my post is my cite.” It’s neither right nor wrong. It’s just my opinion.
But my second opinion is based on objective truth. Either Bush did or did not lie about the evidence used to persuade Congress to authorize the Iraq War, and there’s plenty of evidence to support both sides of the debate. It is perfectly correct to demand a cite for my second opinion.
I prefer to call the second one a belief, not an opinion, because it avoids muddying the waters.
Wrong.
There is no strange alchemy that turns an idiot into someone worthy of respect simply because he or she gets elected. Expressing one’s opinions of idiots is perfectly acceptable, even when those idiots get elected.
A message from all the australian servicemen and women on active duty in Iraq and Afghanistan whom you just told to STF(O).
Dubya
Bushie
Shrub
Miserable Failure
Chimp
Inept
Smirk
Bushitler
Fake War Hero
Chickenhawk One
Hitlerburton
Crackhead
Chimpowitz
Rove’s Puppet
Cowboy Hitlerstein
Torturer
AWOL McPsycho
President Woke Up And The Dinosaur Was Still There
Bushollini
Cheney’s Sock Puppet
President Junior-High Metalshop
Chimpy McDrunkard
President Passports are Optional
Darth Moron
Toxic Texan
President Stifler
Dim Son
Drinky McCokeSpoon
Emperor Chimpatine
Fearful Leader
Herr Bush
Moron-in-Chief
Satan’s Monkey
President Accountability Moment
Big Fat Liar
Fatah
Shoehead
Hybrid Ape Cabbage Creature
Monster
Baby-killer
Divider
Shit for Brains
Fear-mongerer
Dumbo
Neo-con
World Leader Pretend
Delusional Crusader
Family Man
Dick
Terrorist
Bore
Deceiver
Loser
Mad Cowboy
Smirker
Deserter
Draft-dodger
Corporate Lackey
Idiot
Worst President Ever
Number One Self-Proclaimed Self-Righteous Bigot
Misguided
Dangerous
Death-making
Self-serving
Betrayer
War-Mongerer
Stupidest Man Alive
Muck you right in the face, Varrius.
Good thing that he isn’t the president anymore then - see there was this thing called an election a while ago.
Oh, and if free speech pisses you off this much, perhaps you should GTFO of my country and STFU.
calm kiwi is pretty cool. She and I agree on virtually nothing, but she, like Zoe, has both the ability and inclination not to hold peoples’ political viewpoints against them. This is one of the things that impressed me about Diogenes, as a matter of fact. He can go at you tooth and nail in one thread and then be perfectly civil and helpful to you in another just minutes later. I don’t agree with calm kiwi’s assessment of GWB but she is perfectly within her rights both as a person and as a member of this board to speak her mind however she likes as long as it’s within the rules of the board.
Here’s to you, calm kiwi! Keep ‘em comin’. 
I see Varrius has only 32 posts, and may be unfamiliar with this board’s culture. So that is a reason to maybe cut Varrius some slack.
But I’m really surprised that in Varrius’s entire adult life of defending this country, apparently no one has mentioned the 1st Amendment, which is part of our country and part of what Varrius has sworn to defend. Hvae you heard of this, Varrius? It’s about being free to say whatever you want, aside from a few limited things like death threats and shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.
It’s really quite pitiful you’ve been defending this country for so long and not really having much of a clue what it was you were defending.
I would vote to give you a refund on your life if I could, 'cause you clearly didn’t understand what you were paying for.