I’m inclined to believe that Varrius, unlike many people, knows that the first amendment just covers your right to not have your speech curtailed by the government, not people on message boards. This is why even though there’s a sticky at the top of this forum telling us what words are forbidden, the ACLU still has no interest going to bat for us.
Honestly, no, and I’m an ardent Monarchist (and an Imperialist, but that’s for a different thread).
If someone from the US (or anywhere else) thinks the Queen is a useless figurehead/waste of space, they’re absolutely entitled to believe that and to say that, IMHO. I’m also entitled to disagree with them, and- this is very important- say the same sort of things about their Head of State if I believe them.
This is a queer cultural thing I’ve noticed. Insult the President of the US of A and a mercan will no doubtless challenge you, “How would you like it if I insulted your Head of State?”. I’m yet to find an Australian who would give a shit what you said about the Queen, or Uncle Kev for that matter. That’s because we call a spade a spade, or more appropriately, a wanker a wanker. Australians have due respect for people, not positions, and that’s a perfectly sensible approach to take.
What are you implying about Kennedy’s sexuality?! He NEVER had a go at Checkers, and for you–
Uh, I mean, right. Yes. Of course, he really did screw up.
So, because you’ve been brainwashed into saying “Yes, Sah, Mr. CinC, Sah!” for, as you say, your “entire adult life”, the rest of us have to shut the fuck up?
How about…no?
Not that I count the opinion of US military personnel very high in any case, even in such matters at the colour of the sky or … anything, really. But no, you don’t get to tell us who we get to have opinions on, or whether we can voice them. I know that’s how you’d* like *it to be, and that your military has, in fact, often devoted countless man-hours to ensuring us non-USers aren’t entitled to our own opinions (or even our own governments), but no, get bent, soldier boy. GI Joe, stay home. And STFU.
Bush disgraced the office of the US President.
His incoherent speeches, terrible economic policies (no regulation to prevent Enron or sub-prime mortgages), support for torture / imprisonment without trial and the unjustified invasion of Iraq (which wasted thousands of lives and billions of dollars) mean Bush is the one you should vent on.
Let’s get this clear - the entire World detests Bush because his policies have caused deaths and financial ruin all over the place.
He’s turned the US reputation from ‘Democracy, Freedom, Justice and Capitalism’ into ‘Lies, Waterboarding, Guantanamo Bay and banrupt banks’.
The UK sent troops to support the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, because we were assured by Bush that Saddam had stockpiles of WMDs ready to use. He lied and our troops died alongside the Americans.
Despite all that we still like Americans, especially Obama. Your assumption that deservedly calling Bush an incoherent torturing scumbag means we don’t like the US is faulty.
I’m a bit late sorry.
I am so sorry to be a “person like me” as it offends you so much.
Actually I was not condemning any of his actions either (though I condemn many of them). The thread was about was about “Those who shall be forever mocked”. No matter what your feelings about George W Bush, he is someone who will always be mocked.
That thread was not a political one, it was about people who will always be mocked. Whether you or George like it or not, he will be mocked for a very long time.
I’m not talking about his politics, just his sheer inability to deliver a coherent speech.
Maybe oneday you will be able to go for a day without reading something you don’t like about him.
I would love to have had one day in the last 8 years without reading ANYTHNG about him AND I don’t live in your country!
Well “just for the record” I have throughly enjoyed many of the comments American comedians have made about The Shrub. If you believe those American’s are disrespecting your country then take it up with them.
As a citizen of a whole other country I feel free to disrespect both your government and mine…they are just politicians not god! Though at least I believe in politicians!
I do not dislike the United States AT ALL (I just thought George was VERY bad for you) and I have the right to say what I wish in THIS country.
What about if I have no anti US feelings and still don’t live there?
Chill out dude 
I really didn’t mean to offend anyone but G.W will be mocked for many years to come.
Starving Artist Thank you
Expect any respect for it? If not, then no.
If I might be permitted a hijack here, I don’t think Crafter_Man should have to provide a cite for his opinion.
Opinions are formed in many ways, consciously and subconsciously, and I certainly don’t think it’s reasonable to say to someone “Sorry, unless you’ve had something published in a peer-reviewed journal you’re not allowed to think for yourself.”
See, I think post 35 is a brilliant bit of wisdom. But everyone’s ignoring it. 
I’m not ignoring it, I just don’t agree with you. 
Hold on a minute, there. If MI6 didn’t bother to independently confirm the existence of Saddam’s NBC stockpiles, that’s your own fault- or at least Blair’s.
Okay, but on what basis? Do you disagree that there’s a distinction to be made between “Bush is a bad person” and “Bush lied us into a war”? Do you disagree that it’s appropriate to ask for cites for the latter but not for the former? Do you believe that if someone says something totally outrageous but attaches “In my opinion” to it (“In my opinion, left-handed people are the result of moms who sniffed glue all during pregnancy”), they can’t possibly be called on it?
What he said wasn’t an opinion, it was a belief. An opinion is a straight-up value judgment (ice cream is good, Bush is bad, flowers are pretty, barf is gross). A belief says something about the world (ice cream is unhealthful, Bush is a liar, flower are plants, barf smells like stomach acids). Beliefs require evidence, whereas opinions don’t.
“I love cake” is purely a statement of opinion. “In my opinion, Steve is stealing cable,” is an assertion dressed up as an opinion.
Furriners have been hating Americans long before Bush was president and will be for long afterwards. Some on this board have even equated the former USSR with the US. I’ve never understood this need to be liked. What you should strive for is to be feared. That way people leave you alone and give you shit.
Nothing is forcing any country to play on the world stage. But if you want to play with the big boys then expect to get roughed up once in a while.
I have always wondered about the difference between opinion and belief and that was a pretty good explanation but how does that work in terms of religous beliefs (there is evidence?). Should it be religous opinions?
What about my political beliefs/opinions. I’m a lefty from way back.
I BELIEVE my OPINION is right. What came first the chicken or the egg?
Furriners? Foreigners are not some great homegenous group.
Again, I do not dislike America, I just thought George was STUPID.
Your attitude, however, is …hmmmm…Bush-ish.
I’m sure you never have to be worried about being liked.
Religious beliefs are interesting (understatement of the day). Many religious beliefs rely not on evidence but on faith, and they’re therefore a special class of beliefs. If someone says, “I have faith in an omnibenevolent God,” there’s really no way to argue with them, and doing so is IMO rude (notice that’s purely a value judgment; if I said “a breach of etiquette,” that’s a position I could cite with reference to Miss Manners or some such). Contrast that against the person who recently told me that she doesn’t believe for a second that a database is mathematically the most efficient and reliable way to store complex data: she seemed to hold this position based on faith, having no evidence to back it up, and it was utterly mad and maddening.
Other religious beliefs ARE based on evidence–viz. the book I saw sold at a shop outside the Grand Canyon in which various yahoos showed how the Grand Canyon was evidence for young-earth creationism. Arguing with those religious beliefs is good sport.
Is your political opinion of the “Bush is bad” variety, or of the “Bush is a liar” variety? If the former, I don’t see much percentage in arguing with you (even if I disagreed). If the latter, there have been some excellent threads in which people hashed out those issues.
When you say you BELIEVE your OPINION is right, you suggest (through the use of the word “right”) that you believe your opinion is objectively the truth, which makes me think I’d classify it more as a political belief than as a political opinion: opinions have no truth value.
Not really. You can argue over the thrust of it till the cows come home and not achieve anything; depending on who you talk to- they’re both beliefs and opinions. I personally find “Belief” and “Opinion” to be very closely related, FWIW.
If someone says “In my opinion, Bush lied and led the US into an unjust war” then no, I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask for a cite. That’s how they feel, end of story. Same as “Bush is a bad person”. I can ask what they think Bush has lied about
Generally, yes. Lots of opinions and beliefs are formed by personal experience, and not necessarily backed up by empirical study. You’re entitled to think they’re being silly because of their opinion, but I don’t think you’re entitled to demand “CITE?” for the way someone feels. There’s a pretty good chance they don’t know themselves.
Lots of people believe things without any evidence to support them. Avoiding the obvious example, lots of people believe there’s something wrong with gay marriage. There’s no evidence to back that up, but if someone says that, in their opinion, gay marriage is wrong, then they’re entitled to that opinion, IMHO. I’m entitled to disagree with them, and I’m entitled to ask why they have that opinion, but I’m not entitled to ask for a “cite” for their opinion. And yes, there is a difference between wanting to know why someone thinks something and demanding a cite for it.
People arrive at beliefs and opinions in different ways. IMHO, beliefs tend to involve the lack of evidence, whereas opinions tend to be formed from personal experience or assimilated knowledge, not (generally) specific points that can be readily identified and referenced in a bibliography.
The problem is that opinions are 100% subjective and invulnerable to challenge. “I prefer swiss to cheddar”, “I like Bach more than Mozart.” There’s simply no discussion to be had.
But “I think that Pete was Jack the Ripper” is a factual claim that you can be right, or wrong, about. Likewise, even “Bush was a bad man, in my opinion” is a claim that can be debated on its merits. We can define badness, debate which of his actions qualified, etc… Not so for the tastiness of cheddar.