Pitting Great Debates

The BBQ Pit
1

Great Debates has jumped the shark.

I can remember a time when we actually used to discuss whether Great Debates was biased to the left, and there were good arguments for and against that proposition.

This is no longer true. Great debates is now as radical a message board as you’re likely to find. It is WAY, WAY over on the fringe left.

As of this moment, these threads are on the first page of GD:

**
Did America Deserve 9/11?
“Screw the Planet! I’m an American!”
Guantanamo, Holocaust Parallels
Bush Campaign Running Most Hostile Campaign in History? Why?
Is the Official 911 Story a Conspiracy Theory?
President Bush Wants to Become a Dictator?
IMPEACHMENT EMERGENCY: Jan 20 '05 Will Be Too Late…
Are Barbara & Jenna Bush “Fair Game” If They Join Daddy’s Re-Election Team?
Timing of New Terror Warnings
**

Those are just the most lurid titles, and doesn’t cover all the more innocuous threads that have devolved into anti-Bush rants.

Sorry folks, but on a board dedicated to ‘fighting ignorance’, I hope for better than constant conspiracy theories and lame parallels between Guantanamo bay and the Holocaust.

2

It’s the proximity of the election. It’s amazing how intensely people are focusing on it. And it isn’t just here. It’s work, my relatives, people in the theater, the radio dj’s on MUSIC stations, fercryinout loud. Seems you can’t go anywhere without listening to people discussing politics in a very heated way. And, unfortunately, the media feeds grist for the mill on a daily basis. In big bold headlines.
I’m hoping that come September, things will taper off and go back to normal. Til then, it’s probably going to get worse than it is now.

3

So… you’re saying that Bush destroyed Great Debates? That fucker.

4

You know what Sam?

Shut up.

Just shut the fuck up already.

I am so sick and tired of those on the right pissing and moaning about how everything is biased to the left, liberals this, liberals that, blah blah blah.

You know what? I am a LIBERAL. Yes, that’s right. I am a LEFTIST. And you know what else?

I’m PROUD OF IT.

In our society anymore, there is a disgusting attitude that to be “liberal” is a bad thing. It’s not. There’s nothing wrong with being a liberal.

Conservatives-there are people out there on the left. A lot of people are getting FED UP with the right and their constant demonizing of those on the left.

DEAL WITH IT ALREADY!!!

5

I read GD, but don’t participate much. I know what you mean, though. The titles seem to have a serious leftward slant.

I think a lot of it has to do with a (on this board, anyway) very unpopular President running for re-election.

If Bush loses, I think GD will settle down to business as usual.

On the other hand, If he wins, there will probably be a billion threads on how he “stole” another election.

I think a lot of the more lurid titles could be better thought out, or the threads could be opened in the Pit.

**Disclaimer (I guess)-I’m liberal for the most part, depending on the issues.

6

Well, maybe it looks that way from out there where you are, alongside Attila the Hun and Stockwell Day. But there are plenty of places where a critique of American foreign policy under George Bush, and of the Bush administration’s domestic policies, are seen as relevant and necessary topics for discussion.

Furthermore, your “analysis” of the contents of the GD front page seems to assume that all those threads are proceeding as nothing more than left-wing love fests, where everyone agrees with the OP and there are no dissenting voices. But even the most cursory examination of each of those threads shows that some of the SDMB’s more prominent conservatives have contributed to them, and that the threads also contain a fair sprinkling of liberals, moderates, middle-of-the-roads, libertarians, etc. In some cases, the OP proposing the “fringe left” argument has been roundly criticized by a majority of participants.

I know it makes some conservatives feel better to think of themselves as belonging to a downtrodden, misunderstood, marginalized group, but it gets a bit old after a while. Really.

7

I didn’t think he came off that way, Guin. I thought he just said it was getting over the top. To be honest, it’s pretty over the top on BOTH sides. And every little detail is being sensationalized.
There’s very little middle ground this election. People are angry, and rightly so. But there’s a lot of venom being spewed, as opposed to people discussing rationally and logically. I don’t even want to be anywhere near GD. I have very firm opinions, and I am definitely a liberal, but frankly, trying to wade through all the finger pointing and bickering in order to get to the actual discussion makes my hair hurt.

8

That was basically my point. You’ll note I didn’t post all the other threads which would be considered ‘left leaning’ - I was just surprised by the number of threads taking a proposition which even more reasonable people on the left think are loopy. For instance, worrying that Bush is about to ‘take over’ and become a dictator, or comparisons of Guantanamo Bay with the Holocaust.

And hey Guin? I suggest switching your coffee. You need to calm WAY down.

9

I hate Great Debates. If I wanted to read a page of illogical talking points regurgitated fifty different times in slightly different ways, I’d, well, read Great Debates. But I don’t, so I don’t.

As for its new liberal slant, Sam, you should think back a year or two, when there were fifty threads about what traitors liberals/the U.N./the French were for doubting the existence of WMDs and asking why peace protestors love Saddam Hussein so much. It comes and goes.

10

Careful Guin, you might hurt your leg jerking your knee like that.

True, and there’s nothing wrong with being a conservative either. Problem is, the right and left can’t stop arguing long enough to realize the only winners are the politicans. Things are the same under each administration, it’s just a matter of nomenclature. Money is spent, money is wasted, lives are lost, wars are fought, all for reasons SOMEONE will find offensive to their particular sensibilities.

The media slants left AND right, depends on who writes the checks.

GD is a larger cross section of, what seems to be more liberal personalities than conservative, big deal. If the content of the board offends your ideals, then either stop going, or stand your ground, and stop complaining about how “left” it’s gotten. It’s the freedom that’s the important thing.

On the subject of Bush…

He ain’t as bad as some people want us the believe he is. His people, not him, heisted the popular vote from Al, (he alone ain’t that smart) and FWIW, I’m glad they did. I honestly don’t think that Big Al has the stones to make with big decisions about payback for 9/11 (let’s not pretend we’re doing anything else), and he didn’t have the right people around him to ask either. W might be a knucklehead, but Kerry ain’t much better.

FWIW, I wouldn’t expect a win for the Dems in Nov. either, I mean the tide would have changed this year, except Kerry isn’t worth the powder to blow him to hell, and if Nader runs, Kerry’s sunk anyway. Now, you put Dean back on the trail in '08, and I think there’s a chance.

11

Sam, don’t mind Guin. She’s a … you know … liberal. :dubious:

:smiley:

I stay out of places I dislike, and I don’t feel the need to whine about them when I’m not there.

12

Sorry, I guess I jumped the gun a bit there.

No, there’s nothing wrong with being a conservative.

I guess I’m just tired of how in politics, when you want to hurt your opponent, you call him or her a liberal. Why is that a BAD thing?

Liberal media, leftist this, leftist that. I’m so sick of it.

I just wish some politician would have the balls to stand up and say, “Yeah, I’m a liberal-why is that a BAD thing?”

13

Guin, I don’t know if you noticed, but I never used the word ‘Liberal’ once. I said “fringe left”.

14

BINGO.

I am so fucking sick of the notion that Anti-Bush = “Liberal”

All it does is perpetuate fighting about a bullshit two-party system that’s fucking everybody.

I’m ashamed to call myself Republican or Democrat but I tend to lean towards the right end of the political scale. However, since I vote for the candidate and not the party, I will be voting for John “Douchebag” Kerry. This is not because I like him or his party. It’s because I hate Bush.

15

Big deal – in your book, anyone who doesn’t worship the altar of Fox News is the “fringe left.”

I forgot who originally said it, but it does seem like Sam Stone has become thenew december; your posts don’t offer anything insightful or interesting, but merely regurgitate the daily talking points of the GOP. Hell, the OP is about as unoriginal as they come, an excuse to break out the violins and serve some cheese while you go on yet another whiny self-martyrdom theatrical run. “Oh, woe is me, dem liberals have taken over Great Debates, sob sob sob.”

Cry me a fuckin’ river already. Or, in the wise words of Guinastasia, “Just shut the fuck up already.”

16

Doesn’t it make sense that the party out of power is going to have more to complain about than the party that controls the house, senate, and presidency? Do conservatives have a lot to complain about at the moment? Were the situation reversed, don’t you believe that we’d see a lot more complaints from conservatives and less from liberals?

17

I agree with cmason. The kvetching about “Bushco” and “Shrubya” are just what one would expect when the Pubs are running the show. So, in a sense Sam is right, but I don’t think it represents any left leaning of this MB. If the Dems were in control, I think we’d see the fringe right posting crazy OPs all over the place.

GD is a great place to hang out and trade ideas. Most people recognize the whacked out threads as what they are-- whacked out threads.

18

Hell, yes!

(agree with you though…)

19

Uh, excuse me Sam, but you need to actually look at the threads you are criticizing. That happens to be a right-wing thread that was bitching about people who supposedly think Bush wants to become a dictator. From the OP in that thread:

The OP is “worried” about the “hysteria” of liberals who are supposedly saying that Bush is becoming a dictator. The thing is, the only people who are saying that are an extreme fringe element of democrats. So not only is it a jab at the left from the right, it’s an extreme exaggeration of the importance of that issue. Yet you cite it as a “liberal” thread.

And it’s not just that. I’ve noticed that as you begin to feel more and more like a martyr for the right-wing cause, you are beginning to resort to more and more disingenous methods of argument. Here’s your latest example:

You know perfectly goddam well that Kerry WHISPERED the “liars and crooks” comment to ONE person, and it was INADVERTENTY picked up by the microphone, yet you deliberatly left out that fact and presented it as though it were part of Kerry’s campaign platform.

Yeah, the occasional nutball comes into GD and posts a silly thread. Do what I do - DON’T READ THEM. And yes, there are more democrats here than republicans. But I’ve seen bullshit from BOTH sides. I’d hardly say GD is ruined. It was MUCH more of a crapfest when December was around littering it up with right-wing drivel.

20

Isn’t there oh about 50 debates on the first page (depending on your settings) if you don’t like 20 of the titles there’s still 30 left.

If you don’t like the politics open a few threads of your own. Make a point or debate by your terms.