That’s the most charitable explaination that comes to mind. The complaint, however, is not that you fail to do the right thing out of cowardice or otherwise (many do for varies reasons), but that you don’t recognize what is clearly the right thing to do and look for ways to defend clear immorality.
Oh, sure. But now supposing you were yourself a slave… would it still be (presumably) more moral for you to live in Vermont than in Texas?
A slave at the time wouldn’t be morally bound by the laws of either state, or any state in the United States. (Seeing as the federal constitution preserved their slave status no matter which state they escaped to.)
~Max
You haven’t answered the question. Or do you think someone purportedly owned as a slave cannot act morally because their purported master says so?
Slaves weren’t part of the citizenry, they couldn’t properly be considered part of either state (except as property/nonpersons partial persons / aliens).
~Max
You still haven’t a answered the question. Is it still more moral from the slave to choose to live in Vermont, or to remain in Texas doing their master’s labor (according to the law)?
Oh, I must have missed that question. Sorry.
Given the choice, unless there was a weird situation where the slave was treated well and enjoyed slaving away, it would be more moral to choose a better life in Vermont.
~Max
Sigh… I’m going to just move past that part.
Anyway… if it’s more moral or a slave to be in Vermont than Texas, then why, again, isn’t it more moral for a farmer to help the slave stay in Vermont?
Yes, that does seem like it would be a “weird situation.”
The premise is that every individual has their own responsibilities. A farmer may have a family, a business, etc. which are not shared with the slave in his barn. Even more important is the responsibility to one’s self - primarily to survive, but also basic liberties like freedom. The slave is justified in taking more extreme measures because he must do so to survive or for basic freedoms; the farmer is not in that situation. While helping a person in need is a very strong moral good, it does not usually extend to killing another person, just as one example.
So consider if the farmer faces the loss of his farm (livelihood), prison time, and possibly even serious injury or death at the hands of a mob. If this is the price one has to pay to survive, or for freedom, as it is for the slave, it can be risked. But for the same reason you are not morally required to throw your life savings away to charity and volunteer for the Peace Corps, the farmer is not necessarily obligated to risk everything for a random slave he finds trespassing on his farm.
I almost failed to mention the farmer’s general obligation to society to follow its laws. While significantly weaker than serious consequences such as mob violence it is still an obligation the farmer has, which the slave - who is not part of that society - does not.
~Max
You’re right, I’m done. That last bit of mental gymnastics was the last one I could stand to bear witness to.
…hypothetical.
You are a undocumented black man, living in 2022 Vermont. You are hiding in a barn, having escaped from indentured servitude at a farm just down the road.
A white man opens the door to the barn.
Do you:
- Immediately turn yourself in, because the law is the law, and you are breaking the law, and you have been caught, fair and square.
- Appeal to the humanity of the person that opened the door, hoping that they let you stay for the night.
- Kill them. Because…they were probably going to turn you in anyway, so what do you have to lose?
Are you physically incapable of putting yourself in the position of the fugitive slave? Is that a thing you are unable to imagine?
@Max_S, would you have opened the pod bay doors?
Fuck coconut.
That was going to go in the mini rants thread, but I put it here instead because this thread is fucking ridiculous. Fuck this thread, the pittee, and the people “debating” the pittee.
And fuck coconut.
He’s a racist moron who thinks he’s smart. That’s why he’s so fucking verbose, he’s a moron who doesn’t know he’s a moron.
I believe he would have. But he definitely would not have held his fire, regardless of life-form readings. 
Agreed. I’m very, very guilty for arguing with people “for being wrong on the Internet” to the point of stupidity, so I’m aware of the risk of being the pot calling the kettle black. But I just don’t understand this thread, Max_S is quite obviously a troll, is quite obviously deriving pleasure from this attention. I just don’t understand why people keep engaging. Obviously people are allowed to do what they want and tell me to fuck off, but patronizing this troll is emblematic of the thing that has historically kept so many trolls on these boards for years.
I mean you can be sure he’s getting actual sexual release from this, but I guess some people just can’t help themselves. Or maybe they enjoy being part of that game.
If we have settled the question of the pod bay doors, I want to move onto a classic trolley problem. The ethical dilemma here is much more tricky.
There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You control a lever than can switch the trolley onto a side track. There is nobody on the side track. So you have two choices.
- If you do nothing, the five people will die.
- If you pull the lever, nobody will die.
So, @Max_S, do you pull the lever?
I think the reason they keep arguing with Max is because before, said poster didn’t set off nearly as many ‘troll’ alerts. Dense, entitled, unempathetic, but not ‘troll’.
Max’s recent posts in other forums, and their defense of such posts in this forum had everyone scratching their heads about how such an individual came to evolve. So they keep trying to test it. In my mind, it’s all Bladerunner - they are trying to figure out if it’s affect is just the norm for a terrible human, or if it’s a replicant (troll).
I decided a ways back before the testing began to take it (Max) at it’s word - it’s a horrible human, and one I chose not to associate with. Thus a mighty ignore. I think the others are still testing to figure out how such a piece of crap hid so long, or perhaps if it’s salvageable.