Playground harrassment as argument against gay marriage

I’m not quite sure which forum is apropriate for this, but since it will most likely be slightly incoherent I figured IMHO to be best.

In the gay marriage debate (which has been “current” for a while in Scandinavia, though never quite as venomous as the American counterpart seems to be), a common counterargument seems to be that since married couples will most likely want to raise children, and children whose parents are “different” will be harrassed my other children, it is best for the children if gay couples are not allowed to raise them, and, by extension, to marry.

Now, I was raised in a typical, ideal, two parent, mother/father family. I was a planned and wanted child, I was born after my parents achieved relative financial stability, lived all my life in the same, large, confortable house on a blind road with plenty of other families with children. I went to good public shcool, had neat clothes, good grades, a reasonable amount of the newest toys and fads, in fact I never lacked anything. The only thing “different” about me was that I was an only child.

I was still picked on and harrassed by my “peers”. Among a plethora of other things, I was harrassed after my mother managed to get into a car-accident involving a buss (no serious harm done, other than a totalled car). I also was harrassed whenever my father or mother (both academics) got involved in some sort of public debate (small town). I was picked on because of my parents, even though my parents were ideal, according to the folks who don’t want to allow gay marriage.

So, since I was picked on because of my parents, should my parents not have been alowed to raise me?

The simple fact is this: children will get picked on, no matter their parents. Why should the judgement of the anti-social amoebas that other people choose to call children be a valid argument against letting a loving couple raise a real child? Am I missing something?

Do these people advocate barring blacks or Jews from marrying, for the same reason? Overweight people? Atheists? Poor people?

You’re right, it isn’t, and “no”.

Not missing a thing. It’s a battle of common sense vs social inertia and bigotry. In any argument against gay marriage that I have ever heard, it’s grasping at straws, conflating basic and benign rights with the end of the world. There’s no real argument, so hypothetical strawmen based on fear, hatred, hyperbole, and the status quo have to do.

In your example, of course kids will always find some way to pick on one another. But it looks good to the mouthbreathers if a message of intolerance can be presented as a positive “won’t somebody think of the children?!”

I always get the feeling that the people who say “the kid will get picked on” are the people who will probably be doing the picking.

If we all ceased to reproduce because our children might get picked on, the human race would have died out a long time ago.

There’s another counter to that “the kid will get picked on” argument. A kid who is unusual in any respect will get picked on. If SSM is permitted (as it already is up here), I agree that kids belonging to same sex parents will be initially seen as unusual, but as SSM becomes more common, such kids will be seen as less unusual.

In any case, I don’t have a cite, but I have difficulty believing that more than a very tiny proportion of all the kids out there with glasses that get called “four-eyes” turn out emotionally crippled. Teasing is a fact of life.

OTOH, I was a teenaged single mother, married to a man not my son’s father when he (the son, not my husband) was 6. We’re neopagans who take the kids to clothing optional campgrounds and festivals where said kid is the apprentice firetender and spins fire for fun. We’re “weird” in pretty much every way it’s possible to be weird in an urban, multicultural environment. On top of that, until he was 11, he had a noticeable hunchback from a scoliosis, and then spent a year recovering for surgery during which he was allowed no athletics or gym class at all.

And my son (now 13) says he’s *never *been picked on. Ever.

In fact, he was recently annoyed with his school for having a half-day assembly on school bullying because, in his words: “Mom, it just shows how the grown-ups don’t listen to us kids! Bullying is NOT a problem at our school!”

I was shocked myself, and questioned him pretty deeply. No one gets made fun of for being small, or unathletic, or too smart or too dumb or having weird hair or old clothes? No, he keeps telling me, none of that.

I’m rather gobsmacked and not sure what to believe, honestly. I mean, he’s a little quiet skinny white boy from a weirdo family in a fairly tough racially mixed urban school. If anyone should be getting picked on, it’s him. But he says no.

So, yeah, that argument if full of shit. Kids are going to pick on who they’re going to pick on, and no amount of speculation will reveal a pattern that’s always going to hold, apparently.

Can we test for this? Send him to school dressed in pink or something?

Isn’t this an argument for publishing “Heather Has Two Mommys”, not deciding prejudice is inevitable and destroying people’s live over it?

People don’t seem to get that growing a kid up strong and fine means teaching said kid how to handle adversity such that kid can manage for itself throughout life. It starts with playground picking and goes on from there. Trying to shelter a kid from all badness makes for a weak and unprepared adult who can’t face dealing with situations.

And no, I don’t have a cite. But I’ve run into it a fair bit.

So the answer to the ‘but kids will pick on the different one’ is ‘so what’.

IMHO the desire to ‘protect’ the kidlets from All Bad Things is turning into a pathology. And turning out some real clueless youts.*

*channelling De Vito

I think the only argument we can make against people who oppose gay marriage is to reassure them that it’s not going to replace straight marriage. That’s the only thing I can think of that would affect them personally if homosexuals are allowed to marry and have kids (I don’t even like writing “allow” them to do something that everyone else takes as a basic freedom.) I can’t wait until homosexual marriage becomes the non-issue that it should be and we can stop having these pointless discussions (no offense to you, Septima - it’s the issue that I take issue with. :smiley: )

No, OP, you’re not missing anything. I’m not gung-ho on gay marriage as an issue; I’ve heard the argument cited more often against interracial marriage. But my thought is that whoever says this is just trying to put their words into someone else’s mouth who, being hypothetical and a child, could not be immediately rebuffed.

Addendum: To point out the subtle prejudice of people who say things like this, ask them how they knowany child from such a union would get picked on, or that other children would care at all. The only reason a person assumes children would act this way is because it’s what they, the speaker, actually think right now. Asking this question and forcing them to respond to it highlights this very fact.

Pesci, maybe?

Yeah, just to name one particular example that’d really hit home with the uptight straights who argue thus, you could say the same thing about divorce: that divorce should be banned because kids might get teased about it. Or children born out of wedlock.

Some of the really uptight conservative ones might say we should make divorce and bastard children illegal. That doesn’t mean they currently have the political clout to make it stick.

Well, I’m not sure I buy that. I worry about my son getting picked on not because I picked on kids in school, but because I was picked on, or, more frequently, I saw others get picked on. I didn’t like it and I don’t want him to have to experience it.

But that not wanting him to be picked on doesn’t go so far as to lead me to not have him, if you know what I mean.

Really, if you think about it, this is a similar argument to our recent, uh, philosopher guest who thinks that none of us should have kids ever, so we can spare them the agony that is the ceasing of existence at the end of life. Not having kids to spare them potential pain while denying them almost certain joy in living is just odd. (I’m not saying everyone’s life is always full of joy or that it should be, but I think even dirt poor people with no shoes getting picked on at school experience joy sometimes.)

Nice job! :smiley:

Ir to REALLY hit home with a lot of the people who say these things…

Adoption. Adopted kids get it for that, should adoption be abandoned?

I understand what you’re saying, but, picking should not be allowed to go on indefinitely, unchecked. At some point, adults have to intervene. Otherwise, the pickers will be conditioned to think that they have every right to be cruel, and the pickees will be conditioned to think that they deserve what they’re getting.

In my experience in working with kids, with no studies to back it up at the moment, it seems that kids in the past 10 years or so are more tolerant of kids that are “different” than they were in the past. It would seem that all the diversity messages that kids have been getting since the “politically correct” era started are having some positive results. Watch MTV, The N, or Nickelodeon for a day and see how there are diverse characters and how the show’s heroes are kids who are accepting of diversity and the show’s villians are frequently racist, homophobic, etc. Kids think that it is cool to have a gay, bi-racial, handicapped friend, while in the past, it might not have been so cool.

In my experience, the kids with gay parents as well as the gay kids themselves get picked on a lot less than the loud kids with poor social skills who instigate others and who react to the teasing by throwing tantrums. Although realistically teasing should be considered and defintely addressed, it should not be a sole factor in excluding potential adoptive parents (whether thay be gay, a different race, or whatever).