Please explain auto racing

Factual Questions
21

Not true. Current Nextel Cup, Busch Series and Craftsman Truck series vehicles do use stock components. The non COT (car of tomorrow) cars use stock roof panels, hoods, and trunk lids. The COT cars use stock hoods. Busch series cars are the same as the non COT cars, just a shorter wheelbase. Craftsman Trucks use stock hoods for the make raced and the roof used for all makes is from a mid 90’s Ford. The engines used by Chevrolet and Ford teams are based off production passenger car engines although neither has been used in quite a few years. The upper half of the Dodge engine in production based, the lower half is a racing only piece. The engines used by Toyota is designed to be a racing engine only but the design is based on a standard cam in block, over head valve V8 used since the 50’s. The front suspension used on all the vehicles are based on production vehicles from the 60’s, upper and lower control arms, coil springs and hydraulic shock absorbers. The rear suspension used by all makes is the same basic design used by mid and full size GM cars from the 60’s, equal length trailing arms, coil springs, solid rear axle, hydraulic shocks and panhard bar to center the rear end. Up till a few years ago, NASCAR rules required stock trailing arms and Chevy truck pieces were used. The rear ends are based on the popular Ford 9 inch rear end.

NASCAR also requires the bodies to be made from 20 gauge steel, the same that is used in production passenger cars. The only parts that are not steel is the nose piece and the rear tail light panel and bumper cover. They are carbon fiber. Transmissions used at most tracks are Ford or Muncie, the same used in passenger cars. The steering boxes used in all cars GM power steering units and the center link and idler arm are modifed Ford products.

Even though the cars raced today have very little in common with the car you see on the street, there is a lot of stock left in the cars.

22

It’s southern guys turnin’ left.

23

The starting lineup for the race at Darlington includes the drivers from the following states:
Missouri, 4
Washington, 2
Kansas, 1
Virginia, 4
California, 7
Texas, 1
Florida, 2
North Carolina, 4
Georgia, 1
Nevada, 2
Wisconsin, 4
Arizona, 1
New Jersey, 1
Indiana, 2
Ohio, 1
Tennessee, 1
Michigan, 1
Arkansas, 1
Kentucky, 1
Vermont, 1
Plus one driver from Bogota, Columbia.

24

Come on Racer saying it is based on it not he same as it is stock. :rolleyes: Saying that NASCAR parts are based on stock is like saying that when Paris Hilton gets engaged her ring will be based on the cubic zirconium ring I have here at the house. Other than they both have a hole for a finger, and are shinny that is about it for similarity.
Yeah NASCAR is based on stock cars. Look the street car has 4 wheels, a steering wheel, and a driver’s seat. So does the race car, why they are identical! Yeah right.
I worked on a professional racing team. We built a race truck for off road racing series. When we got done, just for fun we counted up all the stock not modified parts in the race truck.
The total? Three. The mastery cylinder reservoir, the tail lights, the emblem on the front grille. This was on a truck that looked “stock” from 5 feet away.
Personally I doubt you get even get that high with a NASCAR “stock” car.

25

I favor the sports car series myself; as in American open-wheel racing, there was also a split of sorts in the sports car world about a decade ago, resulting in the Rolex Series and the American Le Mans series (in Europe they have an equivalent series to the latter), running exclusively on road courses. Basic difference between the two is that it is much cheaper to run a car in Rolex than in ALMS (which has much faster cars as a result). Unlike other series the sports cars run several different classes of cars in one race-2 in Rolex and 4 in ALMS, ranging from cars built from the ground up to race (prototypes-the fastest, close in speed to a F1 car in some cases), to highly tweaked versions of high-performance street cars (so called GT class(es), such as the Porsche 911s). I’ll likely be at Le Mans next year the granddaddy of all sports car races.

26

That was an attempt at a humorous generalization (though, based on your stats, southerners are generally the majority). Most of the interviews I hear (and believe me…I hear a LOT of 'em) involve guys with southern accents. This is not a judgement; it’s an observation.

27

Thanks, this has cleared a lot of things up.

28

Here’s my stab at answering some of these questions.

After breaking away from USAC in the early 1980s, by the early 1990s Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) had become one of the top auto racing series in the world. Unlike any other series, it raced on an interesting mixture of oval tracks, road courses, and street courses, and its drivers were among the best and most famous in the world, including, for instance, Mario Andretti. The series was owned and operated by the car owners, including people like Roger Penske.

The owner of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Tony George, was unhappy that “his” race, which was by far the most popular and well-attended race in the series, was not a more prominent attraction in in the schedule, and that he didn’t have as much influence in the running of the rest of the series as he thought he should. So he took his ball and went home.

He announced in 1995 that he was forming the Indy Racing League, to start in 1996, the centerpiece of which would be the Indianapolis 500. It would be the last race in the season, although it would continue to be run on its traditional date: Memorial Day weekend. This created an unusual schedule that began in June and ended in May, with a long winter hiatus. (Needless to say, this odd plan didn’t last long.)

Tony positioned this series as intended to lower costs and to attract more American drivers, although most CART fans felt that this was just a cover for a power grab by George.

At first, most of the best teams remained with CART, and the first season of IRL was a rather embarrassing mix of CART back-markers, has-beens, and never-wases. Attendance for the 1996 Indianapolis was much lower than it had been in decades, in part because CART decided to run a competing 500-mile race the same day in Michigan. (I was there.) Many in the racing community feel that the winners of the Indianapolis 500 in 1996 and for the next few years should have asterisks next to their names, because the field simply didn’t have the quality of driver that had marked all previous 500s.

The split was pretty bad for everyone, particularly fans and sponsors. For the most part, fans had not been calling for an ovals-only series or for more American and fewer foreign drivers. The quality of racing in the early IRL was laughable, and although it improved over time, the quality of racing in IRL and Champ Cars today is arguably worse than that of the golden age of CART. Sponsors, who only wanted to reach as many potential customers as they could were faced with choosing between one of two series, neither of which attracted the audiences that CART had reached at its peak.

Over the years, for a variety of reasons, mostly having to do with sponsors and money, teams started moving from CART to IRL and in the last few years the tables have turned. The best drivers, and the best racing, are now in IRL.

There have been talks about trying to reunify the two series, both of which have suffered by trying to appeal to the same sponsors, manufacturers, and fans, and most fans I talk to, and a lot of commentators, drivers, and others would like see it happen. But the powers at the top remain stubborn and unwilling to compromise.

BTW, CART is no more. The original CART organization (which was briefly a publicly traded company) went bankrupt a few years ago, and the franchise was bought by a group of team owners and renamed the Champ Car World Series (CCWS).

NASCAR was already building in popularity in the early 1990s, but the CART/IRL split only helped NASCAR by fracturing a previously unified open-wheel fanbase. If there had been no split, CART might have been able to challenge NASCAR for some of the ad revenues, television deals, and fan interest that ultimately went to NASCAR. It wouldn’t have been easy since NASCAR has several different series and a lot more races per week, but the split certainly played into NASCAR’s hands.

A few have, although it is becoming increasingly rare. In the golden age of the 1960s, drivers like Mario Andretti and others did routinely cross over, although even then it was relatively rare. Although the cars and tracks are very different, the basic skillset is relatively similar, and IMHO, the top drivers in NASCAR, F1, or the open wheel series could probably be competitive in another series if given a chance.

A few years ago, the Speed Channel arranged for Juan Pablo Montoya (then in F1) and Jeff Gordon (a top NASCAR driver) to trade cars in a test run at Indianapolis. I was no more surprised that Montoya did well in the NASCAR car than I would have been to learn that an F-16 pilot could fly a Piper Cub. But I was really shocked to see that after just a few laps in the high-tech F1 car, Gordon was doing laps within a second of Montoya’s time. Very impressive, and indicative of Gordon’s great talent.

The obstacles to crossing over are mostly financial. Pure driving talent is far from the only thing needed to succeed in pro racing these days. Sponsors need a telegenic personality to represent their products and once a sponsor takes on a driver, the driver would be crazy to give that up to run in a different series that his sponsor doesn’t support.

As others have explained, no. NASCAR and F1 are the two most popular franchises, but there’s a lot of other racing going on.

29

Although not intended as a disagreement with the general thrust of your post, Michael Andretti (Mario’s son) was an example of a driver who failed to successfully make a switch. His brief F1 career was something of an embarassment, particularly in his first races when he comprehensively failed to be competitive in standing starts.

30

My point was a counterpoint to the “nothing stock” on the current car. NASCAR race cars are exactly that, race cars. But they are based on kind of cars we all use to drive. No other cars driven in a professional driving series can say that.

31

Absolutely. No one says it’s easy to make the switch, and F1 is undoubtedly the most difficult form of racing, with the highest tech, the highest budgets, and the highest pressure on the driver to perform immediately.

There are other recent examples of racers from the North American open wheel series failing to make it in F1: Christiano da Matta and Tiago Monteiro moved from Champ Cars, the former the 2002 series champion, but couldn’t find success in F1.

Scott Speed, the first American to run in F1 since Michael Andretti, was a champion in a couple of European series before moving to F1 last year. Unfortunately, he has been struggling just to move up to the middle of the pack.

One might even argue that Montoya, undoubtedly one of the most talented drivers ever, winner of the Indianapolis 500 and the 24 Hours of Lemans (both on his first attempts), “failed” in Formula One. In six years he won “only” seven races, but never captured a title and certainly didn’t live up to the high expectations many people had for him.

And yet most observers would agree that there are back markers on the F1 grid with less talent than some of the drivers I’ve mentioned, who keep their rides only because of their connections with sponsors.

It’s a tough business.

32

Would you not call sports car series like ALMS and Grand Am Cup that run race-prepped production cars “professional driving series”? I grant they are not major league series like NASCAR or F1, but I was under the impression that most of those drivers are full-time pros.

33

[QUOTE=commasense]

A few years ago, the Speed Channel arranged for Juan Pablo Montoya (then in F1) and Jeff Gordon (a top NASCAR driver) to trade cars in a test run at Indianapolis. I was no more surprised that Montoya did well in the NASCAR car than I would have been to learn that an F-16 pilot could fly a Piper Cub. But I was really shocked to see that after just a few laps in the high-tech F1 car, Gordon was doing laps within a second of Montoya’s time. Very impressive, and indicative of Gordon’s great talent./QUOTE]

Actually, I think the F16 pilot would have significant difficulties handling a Piper Cub on the ground as it would require him to use his feet in ways he’d not be used to.[/hijack]

MotoGP rider, Valentino Rossi, did some driving in Schumaker’s F1 Ferrari some time ago. His times were reportedly within a second or two of Schumaker’s. On the face of it it sounds remarkable, but I think, for one, people who are good at being very fast, can be fast on pretty much anything. Also, a second or two is a long time in F1, Rossi was capable of good times but not great times. Whether or not he’d be able to find that extra something to be trully competitive in F1 is another question.

34

Unlike a NASCAR sedan an ALMS GT car, while heavily modified from a production model, are nevertheless much more “stock” than a Cup car.

35

Another important distinction between F1 and everything else (NASCAR, “CART”, and IRL) is that each team in F1 design and build their own cars and motors.*

Top F1 teams have hundreds of engineers working around the clock (multiple shifts, literally) to design and build a car for a new season, as well as redesigning and refining it throughout the year. All F1 cars in a given season might look the same at first glance, but upon closer inspection, one will see that each team’s car is very different from the rest. This is enormously expensive, and probably not as competitive. Even Schumacher, arguably the best of his generation, would probably still be bringing up the rear if he were to race in an also-ran P.O.S. F1 car. On the upside, F1 cars have evolved into technical masterpieces, and cannot even be compared to cars racing in other series.

“CART” and IRL use a spec-chassis and engine. This is much, much, cheaper, and staffs are much, much smaller. NASCAR teams have a choice of several cars (Ford, Chevy, etc.) but the individual teams don’t do much in the way of engineering and design.

F1 has taken steps to cut costs in the last couple of seasons, mandating tech freezes and the like, which I don’t approve of, but I can see the argument.

The F1 crown is won by the contributions made on the drafting board and the wind tunnel; way more the other series discussed.

*OK, some small teams buy their engines from larger teams.

36

Yes, that’s what I was saying to racer72, who seemed to be saying that only NASCAR has cars that are “based on kind of cars we all use to drive.” Unlike NASCAR cars, which merely resemble production cars, sports car racecars really are production cars.

BTW, what’s with everyone calling stock cars “sedans”? I agree that technically they fall under that designation, but I’ve never heard anyone in motorsports call any racecar a sedan.

37

The ALMS LMP1 and LMP2 cars are purebred racing cars. The only thing close to stock in them is the engines and that is stretching it. The GT1 class is considered a production based class, the cars are about a stock as Nextel cup cars under the skin. The GT2 class cars are basically modified street legal race cars. The Grand Am Cup Daytona Prototype cars are very similar to the ALMS LMP1 cars, they have roofs whereas the LMP1 cars are open cockpit. They are strictly race cars too, very little that could be considered stock. The top drivers in each series might make a living driving race cars, many also work at other jobs. When I drove in the NASCAR Northwest tour series, we drove full tilt race cars and tried to put on a professional show. Come Monday morning, most of us went off to our regular jobs, just like many drivers in other lesser racing series scattered across the US.

38

Fair enough, I guess. But the original spirit of NASCAR was car manufacturers pitting their cars against each other. “Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday” made sense as people were buying “the same” car that had won the race on Sunday. Calling today’s cars “stock” is, at best, a real stretch of the imagination.

39

It’s been that way for a while, IMO. NASCAR racecars haven’t closely resembled their street versions for about 20 years.

40

I knew all that and was, of course, referring to the GT cars in each series, not the prototypes, when I spoke of “race-prepped production cars.” But I didn’t know that any of those drivers had day jobs. I assumed they were all full-time pros.