How is this rogue? His puppet’s main purpose was to be able to create chaos and distrust in the American electorate and diminish the US’s reputation in the world.
Mission Accomplished. The gains there far outweigh whatever’s happening from a military perspective.
This to me is one of the most troubling things. For all the talk of “Constitution”, “Nation of Laws”, “Check and Balances”, all it took is one lying, unscrupulous, sonofabitch to appeal to the worst demons of human nature, to jeopardize the entire Republic. It will probably survive, but not without scars that will last a generation. I just hope lessons will be learned. But I doubt it.
That’s where we disagree, I don’t think we recover from Trump. His base will stick by him even though there is clear evidence he is corrupt. There will never again be a president that is acceptable to red and blue America. I think that the one thing that the Ukraine scandal will settle is that we are two different countries with different values and cultures.
This, sadly, is how I feel. Even if Trump is impeached, removed from office and sent to federal sleepaway camp, we won’t suddenly find his millions of devotees dazed and blinking, asking “what… where am I? Did I do a bad thing?”
Not to sound trite, but it’s like one of those internet memes, what color is the dress? or Do you hear Yanni or Laurel? Not only do the two sides not agree, they can’t possibly understand the other side’s point of view.
Sadly, the one thing that I thought Biden offered was that he would be acceptable to a significant portion of Trump’s base. Before this blowup, he would have a legitimacy in the eyes of Trumpland in a way that no other Democrat could. Now, I think that is no longer possible.
I don’t agree that Clinton’s alleged perjury (he wasn’t convicted, right?) jeopardized the entire republic, but this really seems off-topic in a thread about why the Ukraine call was the last straw.
I believe they idolize him BECAUSE he is corrupt. They would love to skate around responsibilities and those pesky morals and ethics. But mostly, avoid the law.
The thing is, it won’t break down “in terms of states”. The Second American Civil War, should it come to pass, will have a lot more in common with the civil wars in Yugoslavia and Rwanda than it will the first US Civil War. It won’t be North vs South or East vs. West or even Red Vs Blue. It will be one town vs another, one neighbourhood vs another. It won’t be large military trained forces meeting on the field of battle, it will be local ad-hoc militias taking it on themselves to “fix the X problem” by turning on their neighbours.
Some people are of the opinion that we’re already in the first stags of such a war, with the various Nazi vs Anti-fa clashes, and right wing terrorists shooting up mosques, synagogues and Walmarts full of Hispanic people.
That’s what I think, too. Trump behaves the way they would if they could: assault women, cover everything in tacky gold leaf, and troll the libs. As for Ukraine, could you imagine their reaction if Obama had done any of this?
I think we might have to look at all of our parts in this dysfunctional society. Who howled when Obama took Bush’s 2 wars to 7? We had kids in cages separated from parents at the border then too. We’ve plenty of examples of unprosecuted war criminals and “the law” violating “the law”. Trump is a symptom of a society predicated upon an illusion.
Thanks for that. Since the last couple of times this thread was resurrected, it was for partisan potshots (not you VT!), and I already have my answer, I’m going to report my own post and ask for this to be closed.