please help with my design project

Hi Guys,
Im studing design here in England and Im about 5 weeks into my final year and doing my major project (worth about 40%)
I have this idea and I need your help.

What do you think?
What I do to improve it?
What could I do to make you buy it?
Its basically a device that swims around your swimming pool and removes the leaves bugs and other debris that lays on the surface. Thus removing the need to stand there with a net and do it by hand.
It has two modes, one for when people are swimming and one for when they are not. When no-one’s swimming, ‘wing-like’ parts come from the side and double the mouth size, so increasing the amount of stuff collected.
The modes can be altered by simply pressing a button on a keyfob.

So what do you think? be gentle!

I think the remote control is a good idea, but I don’t get the advantage of the double wide mouth.

Is this an engineering type class, or a business class, or other? Will you just define features, or do a complete design, or build a prototype, or actually build and sell them?

I ask because from a business perspective, I assume these are pretty low margin, and require substantial (from a student’s perspective) up front investment to make.

I think the remote control is a good idea, but I don’t get the advantage of the double wide mouth.

Is this an engineering type class, or a business class, or other? Will you just define features, or do a complete design, or build a prototype, or actually build and sell them?

I ask because from a business perspective, I assume these are pretty low margin, and require substantial (from a student’s perspective) up front investment to make.

I think the remote control is a good idea, but I don’t get the advantage of the double wide mouth.

Is this an engineering type class, or a business class, or other? Will you just define features, or do a complete design, or build a prototype, or actually build and sell them?

I ask because from a business perspective, I assume these are pretty low margin, and require substantial (from a student’s perspective) up front investment to make.

ok i’ll try again, bin trying to post this for over an hour!

Im a design and engineering student and complete the project from start to finish alone and at my own expence.

The theory is that the double width of the mouth means that more rubbish can go into it so it will take less time to clear the pool.

I will research it, design it, make a prototype and build the final thing. But have no real need to advertise or indeed sell it. It is not a business course.

Will probably end up spending about £1000 on this course alone, one of 4, not good especially on top of the student loan i’ve got to pay back.

Will leave here in less than a year will a BSc Honours Degree in Product Design and over £20,000 debt, nice

I think the remote control is a good idea, but I don’t get the advantage of the double wide mouth.

Is this an engineering type class, or a business class, or other? Will you just define features, or do a complete design, or build a prototype, or actually build and sell them?

I ask because from a business perspective, I assume these are pretty low margin, and require substantial (from a student’s perspective) up front investment to make.

The keyfob’s a bad idea in my opinion. There’s no compelling reason to have something on a remote control for a feature that’s only going to be used infrequently. And the infrequency of use only means that it’s more likely to be lost. For something like this, I’d prefer that it’s a self-contained unit.

Also, I don’t think there’s any need for the mouth to expand, simply because if people are using the pool it should be easy enough to just take the whole contraption out and then put it back when the people are done with the pool. And let’s face it, people are in the pool to have fun and horse around. Leaving this thing in there during this period makes it that much more likely to be broken. Especially if it has complex and lightweight moving parts like your “wings” sound to be.

The net effect of these two suggestions is to reduce complexity and thereby cost. This should, in turn, lead to a better expected market share.

I also, however, have a question about the design. I’m assuming you are intending to use some kind of screen to trap the flotsam but permit water to flow through. What’s gonna happen when the screen fills up and prevents water from flowing through? Unless you are using some means other than what I’ve assumed, to divert the water, what’s going to happen is that you’re just going to end up pushing stuff around the pool instead of collecting it. This is due to the incompressible nature of liquids.

You’re also going to want to take a careful look at the weight distribution. The item is going to need to be bottom heavy to promote stability, but I’m sure you’ve already considered this.

Frankly though, while this is a pretty good idea, it’s going to be a difficult execution and I can see no advantages over the curreny commercially available fixed surface skimmers that are generally incorporated in the filter inlet. Perhaps you could look at combining some other function(s) into your skimmer, such as a timed chlorine dispenser, or hell, I dunno what else.

And for Bill, although I’ll let illumnati answer his case specifically, I can say that, in the general case, a student is required to actually construct a working prototype as part of this exercise. While he doesn’t actually have to build and sell them, the student is also expected to detail the expected methods of manufacture and the estimated costs of production.

ok i’ll try again, bin trying to post this for over an hour!

Im a design and engineering student and complete the project from start to finish alone and at my own expence.

The theory is that the double width of the mouth means that more rubbish can go into it so it will take less time to clear the pool.

I will research it, design it, make a prototype and build the final thing. But have no real need to advertise or indeed sell it. It is not a business course.

Will probably end up spending about £1000 on this course alone, one of 4, not good especially on top of the student loan i’ve got to pay back.

Will leave here in less than a year will a BSc Honours Degree in Product Design and over £20,000 debt, nice

Wow! What a fucked up thread. When I began composing my reply, only the first two of Bill’s posts were here. During composition, not only did illuminati post again, but the third and fourth of Bill’s posts appeared. I think the hamsters need their cedar changed.

And now there’s a duplicated post from illuminati. Weird stuff, man.

Yes i agree this is could be very much the case. But my idea is to make a device quite small, say less than 2 feet in length. Its to be quite sturdy and strong. But, and perhaps most importantly, It has to be a little more complex to gain the extra marks and a higher grade. Basically the guy who marks this in the end suggested it and i would be a fool not to do it!

Well like a regular net that poolmen use, the rubbish is emptied out when approaching full. Of course if it were left to fill up it would eventuyally no longer be able to take in any more but just end up push it around the pool. But if you dont fill up a car with petrol/gas then it wont go! Its a labour saving device but it does not remove all labour.

Correct! I have to consider cost and usability and the manufacture that would have to be used if it were to be produced on a large scale. I do not have to build these and sell them. Its a one off.

Im just glad that its not just me!!!

Aaah, I remember those student days. The all nighters, the crits, the unbudgeted projects…

As an professional industrial designer, I probably have more experience on this kind of thing than many. I like the idea, and I can already visualize the slick 3D renderings, on top of a nicely reflective water surface.

The biggest problem I see you facing is powering this device for any length of time. Corded is probably out immediatly due to UL or any number of other safety regs. Battery power would work but I would look into remote control boats…etc and see how long they can run before thay need to be recharged. Youre going to want this thing to run for a while for it to be effective, and there is always the issue of retrieving it once the battery runs out - say before putting the solar cover on the pool at night.
A solar cell probably won’t provide enough juice but it could be used to top up the battery or recharge it, so the device runs sporadically. Another option would be to come up with a mechanism that uses the water pressure generated in the filter to power the unit - like bottom crawling pool cleaners do.

I’m not sure about having seperate modes of use - we always stick to the KISS philosophy - Keep It Simple Stupid. It seems like it would be a pain for the user to have to adjust the unit depending on whether they are going to be in or out of the pool, it’s just another step that can probably be eliminated.

Another issue to consider - does this thing stay out overnight? A lot of people cover the pool overnight and you might want to look at pond skater insects and such for inspiration - the ones that “skate” just beneath the surface of the water. Staying low would also help the device from being stuck in one side of the pool when it’s windy.
You’ll have to make sure it doesn’t get sucked into the filter, assuming you’ll run both at the same time.

Good luck and keep us updated.

Don’t these things already exist?

or does that not matter?

My in-laws have a similar robotic device that cleans their pool.

I think the remote control is a good idea, but I don’t get the advantage of the double wide mouth.

Is this an engineering type class, or a business class, or other? Will you just define features, or do a complete design, or build a prototype, or actually build and sell them?

I ask because from a business perspective, I assume these are pretty low margin, and require substantial (from a student’s perspective) up front investment to make.

Suggestions:

Have a dock for it that fits near the filter inlet of the pool. The unit could pull in here to recharge it’s battery, and it could dump its load of debris into a catchbin next to the filter. The owner could clear both at the same location. The base unit would also have a button on it to call the unit back to the dock, so that it wouldn’t interfere with swimmers. No need for a keyfob that would be easy to lose. Perhaps you could have a motion sensor that could detect motion around the pool and automatically dock the rover (could be hard to keep it from triggering on the motion of the water, but angling the sensors up might do it).

The bottom-cleaning units I’ve seen just use a mesh bag to catch debris. The water it sucks up can flow through, but the gunk stays in. It would take a huge amount of stuff to fill the bag enough to actually clog the outflow. However, a bag is harder to automatically empty than a rigid container would be. Maybe a pipe-shaped strainer, with holes drilled throughout to pass water. You could have a plunger that pushes the gunk out into the dock catchbin.

Obviously, my ideas greatly increase the complexity of the machine, probably beyond any chance of making a viable consumer product. But there’s loads of engineering in there for you.

I think the remote control is a good idea, but I don’t get the advantage of the double wide mouth.

Is this an engineering type class, or a business class, or other? Will you just define features, or do a complete design, or build a prototype, or actually build and sell them?

I ask because from a business perspective, I assume these are pretty low margin, and require substantial (from a student’s perspective) up front investment to make.

Criminy. Sorry about that. I already got a lengthy whine going in ATMB, so I won’t carry it any further here.

Ok so the general opinion seems to be that the two modes are a bad idea. I can live without them, the way of changing between the two has caused me problems anyway.

I am really keen to find out what you all think of the idea as a whole, now without the two modes apparantly

I like the idea that it could release chlorine at timed intervals!
The only problem with that is a student did that here just last year and I dont want to get labled as just copying that idea.

I have to worry about the cost of this thing ans although the idea of it docking at the side is a nice idea im not sure if i have the knowledge to do the circuits or the programming to get it to ‘swim’ there and dock.

My initial idea was to have it running for between an hour and two hours just before the solar cover is put on.

A rigid netting was again my initial idea for the way of collecting the rubbish.
I am really glad that i posted this thread, the ideas so far have been really good, i cant wait to see what you guys come up with next!
Unfortunatly, cos i live in the UK its getting late and im gunna have to sleep soon. Will wake up early and see wat you guys have to say.

Thanks again

Bill H, wow! Ive never seen that before. Dont worry that kinda thing usually happens to me!

If you dock it, why not use a tether? It can simply be reel itself back in when the pool is in use or when it is full.