Good question, CheekyMonkey613. I remember saying to myself “wow… almost everywhere I look, there is a thread about the subscription change,” so I’m curious as to why your thread was closed, while all sorts of others remained open. (I have to say, though, that I wish they were all consolidated into 1, maybe 2 threads… there really are a lot of these threads out there.)
LilShieste
You know, Lib, the absence of a constant flow of newbies will severely cut down on your ability to start new arguments about modal proofs for god, since all the GD regulars could recite them in their sleep by now. But glad to see you’re staying up-beat, eh? 
Anyways, I’ll just slip in my thanks to you, in case I don’t get another chance, for those occasional 6AM arguments we had that helped to distract me just enough to loosen up on all my all-nighters in law school and kept my mind going for those 8AM exams.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I wish the SDMB all the best, I just don’t think this business model is going to succeed for them. I just don’t think there are that many people out there who will decide that this board is worth $15 annually. It’s a great discussion community (though a little too quick on the trigger to take offense and gang up at the drop of a hat sometimes), but there just isn’t the wealth of content or other perks (webhosting, email accts, etc.) that make subscription boards successful. But if the Reader thinks they can make some money off this board, more power to 'em, nothing ventured nothing gained, I guess.
I don’t think it’s splitting hairs. I don’t even think the SDMB shouldn’t go forth with this plan. Hey, if they can make money off it, more power to them. I hope they make a lot of money, and I hope it makes the board a better place. I like money.
But I don’t think it’s splitting hairs. I come to the SDMB mainly to read. I don’t like most of the game and flirt threads in MPSIMS. I can’t answer any general questions. I’m not smart enough to go in Great debates. I like reading the trainwrecks in the Pit, but I no longer feel the need to contribute to them. So if I don’t pay, how much will it change my SDMB experience?
Why, not much at all. I can still read all the forums, and snicker and laugh and roll my eyes and enjoy it.
But that’s only if other people–the majority of the posters–choose to pay. In the end, I get to read all the content for free. I get to read all the answers, all the arguments, and all the movie reviews for free. Who pays in this model? The people writing the content.
Now, if it was reversed, i wouldn’t give it a second thought. In fact, none of us gives it a second thought. We pay $1.00 for the Sunday paper every week and buy magazines and journals all the time. We pay to read somebody else’s hard work, and that’s the acceptable business model. and the people who write the stuff for our enjoyments gets paid for their trouble.
But that’s not how it works here. I’m sorry if people think I’m being super-anal and nitpicky, but this sort of model makes me uncomfortable. I personally don’t believe everything on the Internet should be free. I think that’s super nice, but I don’t begrudge people who have figured out a way to turn a buck. However, in this particular instance, it makes me uncomfortable. It contradicts everybody’s arguments…the information is still free, but you, Una Persson will now be able to pay to answer everybody’s questions about coal and cars.
If that’s how it worked out in the real world, would you be happy? If your clients expected you to pay them so you could tell them what they need to know?
I think there is a difference. Now, does this compromise my principles to the point that I won’t pay the initial $5? Probably not. In fact, as others have said, the years I’ve had on the SDMB is easily worththat much. The content I’ve already enjoyed is worth that much.
Are you saying you think it would be more fair to have it be pay to post AND read (not the whole board, but such things as certain forums, you know, like a “Members Only Section”)? If that is the case, well, I agree with you. I put that suggestion forth several times over many years, in a few different versions. Obviously it was not considered a good idea for this site, and so it’s not been done. I personally think that would have been a better way, but I don’t want to discuss what I think should be done, as it’s not my decision, my opinion has/had no value, and it’s a done deal.
I’d really like to find some way to assist the SDMB to help their business model work. I had an idea earlier today to make it very easy for non-US Dopers without credit cards or Paypal to join, but didn’t suggest it because I wanted to see how well the early registration process worked out. If it turns out that a lot of the non-US Dopers are being left behind, I’ll float the idea. Otherwise, I don’t think anyone much cares for any more suggestions from me.
I agree completely, and I’ll post and say so even though it seems to be good sport to shout people down who disagree out of principle with the pending change.
First off, it is not a $5 board. It is a $15 dollar board for all but the initial subscribers. It doesn’t make that much difference to me, but it might to others. It will certainly make a difference when it comes to attracting new members at a rate at least as high as normal attrition.
I’ve made the ‘free net’ argument and I believe in it. It’s not fucking hair splitting. I’ll tell you right now that I pay $40/month for the ‘free’ net, and that I wade through a wide array of advertising schemes while using it. However, once I pay for access, it’s a smorgasbord of content, and that is what I’m referring to. I don’t have any inaliable right to free content, but I’m allowed to prefer it. Sure, I could shell out $5 or $15 for the SDMB, maybe $5 or $15 more for each site I frequent. It quickly becomes a bit more change than my couch would hold, however.
The real power of the internet is how incredibly much you can do and learn without all those prohibitive incremental fees. Maybe it really is not a viable model, and the net will change. But until that time, I’d like to do my part by supporting sites that run on advertising, other marketing, or just high octane altruism.
I’d use the library vs. bookstore analogy, but it’s a bit trite. I will, however, note that in the specific case of the SDMB, the wonderful content that we have all come to enjoy is donated for free by the members themselves, who sign away their rights in doing so to the Reader. It is about as far removed from a traditional periodical as you can get.
Good luck to the SDMB and staff. I hope it works out despite my reservations.
…and before it gets taken out of context, what I mean is that with everyone offering innumerable suggestions and criticisms etc., I imagine few want to hear any further suggestions from anyone - and many will just be lost in the din. So I’m going just see how well it all goes and give the system a chance to work before butting in to see if there may be help needed. For anyone knows, there may not be any serious problems or issues once things get underway.
Fewer newbies may be a good thing.
One of the issues here is that you join and you are immediately swallowed into thousands of people. Few people are welcomed. Few newbies (except the kind that get banned promptly) stick out.
This community is great. But it is very very large and its very hard to find a foothold. A smaller community won’t be horrible, we’d recognize each other.
We need newbies at the rate of old members drifting off. That isn’t what we have currently - we have old members who stick around, and more and more new members joining. I don’t know the rate at which old members drift off…
If we get few or no new members with the $15, something can be done. Maybe your first 50 points are free. The pattern most people have expressed that they followed is lurking for a long time before they saw something that made them register. Now they’ll just need to be motivated to both register and pay.
As to “the same old members having the same old arguments” in my mind its the same old argument even if we have new members. GD is a record that skips - the current events threads change - at least until they break down into partisan bickering, but every religion topic is a replay of something we’ve hashed through time and time again. Doesn’t stop us from having them.
I too have been there were $5 is a lot to justify - and $15 has been a hell of a lot. But if its a priority for me, I’ve always been able to justify it. If you can’t, than something else is just that much more important to you. Maybe its your relationship with the person supporting you who doesn’t “understand” this and won’t understand the expense (Hubby’s Magic card habit drove me NUTS when we were struggling). Maybe you’d rather go out to the movies a few times this year. Or eat something more satisfying than beans and rice. Can’t blame you. But don’t blame the Reader. Most servers aren’t expensive (but even a cheap one costs more than $5), but they aren’t free to run. Bandwidth is expensive. Support is expensive. There are free forums out there - but how many of them with this size community and this level of activity?
For all those we lose because of $5 (or $15), I am truly sorry and I wish you all the best in the future. But I can’t say I’m going to miss you because I haven’t had any opportunity to get to know most of you.
No, it’s complaints in a thread that’s been duly created and set apart for… complaints! If you don’t want to read complaints, don’t open a thread of complaints. That’s just a no-brainer.
There are rah-rah I’m on board threads elsewhere. Go find them.
Does anyone else have a problem with Mods. selecting certain posters and offering to pay for their subscription? If regular old posters want to do it, I say it’s a wonderful offer, but is seems to show obvious favoritism when the Mods. only offer to pay for certain people. Look here to see what I mean.
I don’t have a problem with Mods. paying for others, by the way. I just think they should e-mail the person directly instead of posting for all to see, alienating other posters with the same problem that they have not offered to pay for.
What a trainwreck.
For those who cannot or do not want to pay the five dollars, I mean this sincerely, some of you will be missed.
For those of you who can and will pay the five dollars,and this is meant sincerely, I look forward to killing all of your future threads.
I don’t see what you mean. The only thing a mod said in your link is “Please email me”. How do you know he was selecting a certain poster and offering to pay for their subscription?
This is entirely true. The cost of my dial-up account, from when I first got on the net? $20 a month? Worth it? Yes it was.
The cost of my cable modem access now? ~$50 a month. Is it worth it? Yes it is. It’s slightly less reliable, but blazing fast next to dial-up.
The cost of a charter subscription to the SDMB? $5 a year. Is it worth it? I think so, at least for the first year. The place may go downhill now, but I’ll want to see for myself.
The cost of a subscription to Una’s “Lesbian Nurses in Bondage” site? Complete enslavement to Una’s will and unquestioning obediance to her every whim. Is it worth it? Again, I think so, although I must say, Una, we really could stand to see some new material over there. I do respect your commitment to authenticity, I know you want every model to be an actual lesbian nurse. But perhaps you could be just a teeny bit more flexible on that. I say, if she’s a bisexual paramedic, and wants to pose for the site, let her…
I don’t have a problem with it.
Did it even happen? I couldn’t find such an event in the thread you cited.
This is a long as thread and I haven’t read the whole thing so excuse me if this has been said before…
I think the Chicago Reader has it all wrong. It should be paying each person that posts here $5 a year and that money should and could come from advertisers. After the subscription drive briefly satiates their new appetite for cash they will go with ads to generate more income. When they start getting paid by advertisers you should also get paid because you folks provide all the content here, i.e. ask the questions and answer them.
Whoa. I don’t know of ANY community that actually PAYS people to be on it, especially when said community doesn’t make its providers ANY money. I always considered myself “paid” by the answers to my questions and the information/different perspectives I gained.
Not that I’d MIND the cash, but still…
(And since when is this a “new appetite for cash,” considering that the Reader has been apparently taking a loss keeping this place up?)
I understand that we’re in agreement for the most part, but I wanted to revisit this thread and present a personal case for the value of the unofficial “services” the SDMB has provided me over the past 4+ years. Because it’s not anything sanctioned or advertised that has the most value on this board – it’s the uses I have been able to made of the SDMB that’s made it so valuable to me.
Here’s a sampling of the valuable information I’ve been able to ask for and receive:
a) Several auto repair questions have been answered for me, helping me diagnose the problems for myself and talk to the repair folks on a more equal level. This has saved me quite a bit of money.
b) Fellow Dopers helped me diagnose a computer problem I had (viz dead fan -> overheating). The symptoms were confusing to me, but others here contributed valuable advice that helped me resolve the problem myself for a small fraction of what I would have paid a professional.
c) I asked for and received great advice on how to properly claim deductions from my federal income tax. In short, I passed up a lot of stuff in the past … but now I get just about all of what I’m eligible for. More ducats in my pocket, thanks to the SDMB.
d) I got great advice from many Dopers when I raised concerns about our dog’s possible reaction to a new baby into the household. Lots of folks here have walked in those shoes, and were happy to cordially allay my concerns.
e) Real live HR professionals who frequent the SDMB lent me helpful advice in improving my professional resume … just for the asking.
f) Dopers were quick to offer advice on purchasing a digital camera for my wife’s grandparents. This saved us a lot of research time and saved us a lot of hunting around blindly.
Now it’s true – I could get a lot of this information elsewhere on the Net. But for me, that would be a lot more trouble. I like the “one-stop shopping” here at the Dope. Plus, a website’s static content may not be exactly the information I need. The SDMB allows dialogue–I can give and take with responders, to better clarify my concerns and to better focus the advice given.
All of the above doesn’t even address my lust for trivia–both learning it and dispensing it when I have the Dope. Heck, that’s what got me into Cecil’s books in the first place. Sure, Google can take you pretty far when you want to find sout something. But there are times when nothing can beat someone’s personal experience on some topic or another. So many people in one place are willing to seriously share the contents of their brains … it’s really an awesome thing for the knowledge-monger in me to contemplate.
The quality of this board’s interchange of facts and ideas alone impresses me greatly, and has kept me hooked until the present day. Such interchange allows at least one humble user – yours truly – to make the SDMB into something of great value to me. I’d go so far as to say that something transcends mere entertainment. It’s a lot more valuable than that for me … easily worth $4.95. I can only hope many others feel the same way.
For those that decide to part company: there are so many of you all whose contributions I will miss. Farewell.
I realize that it wasn’t specifically spelled out, but with the quote that was used by Czarcasm, and his response to “please e-mail me”, I felt it was safe to assume he was going to help out Buckleberryferry. Even if he isn’t going to pay directly, but simply direct her towards some help, I have not seen him offer this same service to other posters who have claimed similar circumstances to BBF.
I will be signing up. You bet your ass I’ll be signing up.
Why? It’s worth 5 bucks a year to me to post my occasional lame litle rants, ask my stupid questions and get my answers, and participate in some rousing discussions.
I’ll pay the 5 bucks because I don’t think that someone else should lose money to provide this for me. If it was totally free for them, I might think differently. But it ain’t. This board costs somebody money and so far they ain’t getting anything back from it. The way I see it, we have 2 choices.
Subscribe
Let the CR close the thing down because it aint’ doing them any good.
After reading this complaint thread by CheekyMonkey613, I was only willing to say him this:
Ed and Dex comments are fair. I will pay gladly the fee, too. It’s a year since I’ve been reading and posting, very helpful and fun, so I want to pay. Spooje said it very clear: “I’ll pay the 5 bucks because I don’t think that someone else should lose money to provide this for me”.
CheeseMonkey only tries to be radical. I don’t have a stable job. I’m always scratching my head earning my next payment. But I will pay the five dollars. I spend my money in very stupid ways, so this is a smart way to do it.
Sorry, if there is a CheeseMonkey around. I tried to say CheekyMonkey. :smack: