Please tell me what I am...

Hey Satan, I am in the same boat as far as a spiritual quest goes (also I am madly in love and marrying a wonderful person). I believe in a creator, I believe in an afterlife, I believe that the creator does interact with us the creations (so that rules strict Deism out). And…that’s all I got.

But it does seem as if fellowship and rituals, while not necessary for a spiritual life, help bring it all together, give a sort of foundation and structure to one’s moral code. So I go to mass, and I pray the words I learned as a child, and I feel peace. But I have also felt this sense of peace in the woods, on psychadelic mushrooms (Have I destroyed all credibility on this board? My user name is taken from a Dead song, after all.)

Now, Satan, I only buzz by the LB message board several times a day to see you and Drain (and a few others) stand up for truth and reason (and I am wondering if billy the witness is not just someone trying to make Christians look bad. And in the few months I’ve been there, it seems as if you were mellowing. It sounds like they may be getting to you…


Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right

IMO, falling in love is an experience of great spiritual clarity. Seems to me like a perfectly reasonable time to come to an understanding of other spiritual matters.

While we can’t really tell you what you are, I’ll put in my 2¢ in, FWIW.

While I don’t think one’s choice of belief system is completely unimportant, I’d agree with Falcon, Yosemitebabe, and others who feel that correct doctrine (or accepting Christ as one’s personal savior, or participating in the sacraments, etc.) are, in the end, a lot less important than: did we attempt to love and respect our fellow human beings? Did we seek the truth? Did we try to “do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God”? (thanks, rackensack!)

While I’d say, go ahead and check out the Unitarians, please don’t let the LBers totally sour you on Christianity. You’ve seen enough of the Christian posters on this board to know that there are reasons for being a Christian that have nothing to do with fear. Tris’ excellent post near the top of this thread is a good for-instance.

Finding a community of people who are seeking God in a similar enough manner to the way you are can be challenging even if one is a member of a particular faith. You may need some perseverance.

In the meantime, keep on listening to what God is telling you. That’s the gift beyond price - that God is there, and you can hear him.

Best of luck, to you and Libby both. And don’t forget to enjoy the ride, even in its bumpy moments.

Hmm as far as love and believing in god goes im in the same boat with tracer and satan. Except I just suddenly believed in god, (although it was due to some other evidence too at the time and might have just been concidental)

No outside force for me though, but then again im unusual when it comes to unconcious acts.

Oh to be young and in love, and full of mind altering hormones!

I guess its a “natural” human thing to do, but don’t get too caught up in spriritual masterbation. Keep your eye on the ball ( aka, what’s real)

I am absolutely amazed at how many metaphors,analagies etc… people have devised to discuss and debate something nonexistant.

This thread has practically been one big orgy of “cyber sects”.

I don’t think its a good idea to stroke anything of yours that hard and often.

I could be wrong…It happend once before.

Satan: What I see is your heart opening up. All the love that your Beloved brings to you has opened a feeling in you that asks beautiful questions of this place we all find ourselves, and that , lifted by that joyous spirit, you now feel the strenghth to ask other questions.
At about your same age, under different, less clearcut circumstances, I found myself in the same place. I was raised agnostic, by scientists. We never had any sort of church or spiritual practice. But there was always an encouraged sense of query and appreciation for the natural(?) world. I’ve always read widely, especially Eastern religions, since about twelve.

Through a set of trying circumstances- always love or pain- I started an inquiry similar to yours. I examined many paths, and the one that fit with me was Buddhism. It doesn’t posit a Creator God, but, at least from the branch I follow, acknowledges Deities, in an active sense, meaning that there is a response to prayer. The overarching tenet of Buddhism is that it is a misperception of reality that causes suffering.

In that initial search for a path, the common thread I found in the Major religious philosophies was that , at the practice stage, beyond the reading of scripture, it neccessitated an opening of heart. This requires a sublimation of ego, and reliance on faith, best manifested through a qualified teacher. I didn’t get this at first, but , basically, how are you going to understand anything without someone who has already been there?

Most religions have different levels of understanding. The scripture level is a basic understanding of tenets, and give guidance in an underlaying moral conduct, which is a base for a spiritual path. Then there is a “practice” level; a particular means (usually termed “mystical”) to be undertaken with guidance by an adept teacher. Since that technique is more complex, it’s best attempted under direct tutelage, so specific questions can be answered appropriately.

The common thread, to my mind, is that, under certain conditions, the human mind is capable of blossoming beyond our normal functioning. The keys to this are the cultivation of “love” (selflessness?) and compassion. By your discovery of love for another, you’ve awakened this process. Keep your heart open, both to your Beloved, and then also to all beyond that. Realize how precious it is to feel that, and then take it up a notch and give it out to everyone. In my small understanding, that’s the original impetus of all religions.

If you’d like recommended reading: Alan Watts is great: I’d add “The Wisdom of Insecurity” Also, “Inner Revolution”, by Robert Thurman, an understanding of Buddhist thought for Western culture. And, for the lover in you, and also to grasp a bit of Sufism (the poetic/mystic branch of Islam) “The Essential Rumi”, a good translation by Coleman Barks.

I’d just say that you are a Seeker, and that by keeping your heart open, what you need will come to you.

What a delightfully funny thing to relate via cyberspace! Anyway, it is spirit that is real; atoms are not real. How can what is “real” die?

I just read this thread Now(sorry).
I think its great that God is “speaking” to you as it were. My humble advice would be to read everything you want about religion, but just worship God the way You see fit.
Just like the "native’ people who don’t have Bibles or much technology, God can reach out to anyone wherever they are.
You don’t Definitely need a church to worship and know Him, just a one on one relationship.
I hope this helps even a bit.


someone come up with a sig for me!

Brian, I had not posted previously because I was unsure whether I had anything relevant to add. Still not sure but here goes.

First, I am a Christian and more specifically a Southern Baptist. I am fairly fundamental in my beliefs. Now, I can’t and will not tell you what sort of things to believe, but I will give you some of my thoughts.

Incidentally, the God of the Jewish religion and Christainity is the same God. We even share the same first part of the Bible. We just differ on who Jesus was. I have gained a lot of understanding of God and the OT from various discussions on this board with several of my Jewish brethren and sistren. I would encourage you to study your heritage and learn about the God of your mother. Listen to God. Maybe one day you will find a church that meets your needs.

The bible says “Seek and ye shall find”

Jeffery

Libertarian wrote:

My family’s last dog, Racer, was real.
He died.

That plant hanging in my kitchen a few years ago was real.
It died.

If you are close to your mother & you meet a woman like your mother [talks, looks, acts] you’ll find yourself with an incredible sense of attachment. Way too powerful for me to attempt as the woman then has an extreme amount of emotional power [far greater than yourself] over you.

Are you saying I’m like Brian’s mother, handy?

Mind you, I’d take that as one of the greatest compliments anyone could give me, but I was just wondering how you came up with that idea.

Just watch out the next time you feel an urge to say, “Don’t forget to wear clean underwear, Brian, you might get hit by a truck.” :wink:

So Satan, did you make it to church on Sunday? We UUs on the board are dying (pun intended :rolleyes: ) to hear how the Dark Lord likes our little church.

Forgive me if I repeat the
already-posted…both pages of this
thread are “too big to display” on
the wonder that is WebTV. :mad:

Brian, what you are is a child of God. And you will come to know him at the speed that you and he agree on. And in the style and facet of him that is most congenial to who you are. And that is the way it should be. From what I know of you online, I suspect that UU may be precisely what you’re looking for – though it can sometimes be awfully like trying to carry warm Jello in your bare hands to “adhere to UU beliefs.” In fact, Esprix is perhaps the only evangelical UU I’ve ever encountered.

Warning: unabashed evangelism is to be found in this paragraph. Considering that we occupy the same city, you are more than welcome to join us at St. Mark’s Episcopal any Sunday (or any evening during Holy Week, coming up starting next Sunday). I have a hunch it will not be precisely your cup of tea, but the experience of fairly liberal Episcopalianism may open some new possibilities and give you a sense of how traditional Christianity can function in a modern lifestyle – and I think that most of this board would feel that a church where Polycarp is happy worshipping cannot be that horrible a place! :wink: (Besides, it would be terrific to meet you IRL at last – and Libby too, at a place that is our church home.)

Can I comment that I feel really good about what is happening in your life? And not just because I get my toaster! :wink:

:smiley: A unique way of putting it, one I’ve never quite heard of (although I think I’d disagree with it). No doubt my minister would get a chuckle out of that.

Esprix, Your Local Friendly UU Evangelical - Praise The… Uh… Whatever! :smiley:


Ask the Gay Guy! (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, Asketh the damn Priest Guy!)

I can’t get the images of the “UUencode” utility or uunet.net out of my head now…

Satan,

I’m new to this board, so you don’t know me very well.

You’ve touched on a subject that I’ve thought over many times, and there are tons of parallels.

I am born a jew, and will always be a jew. I, right now, consider myself “agnostic”. I don’t worship a specific god, I simply believe in a higher power of some sort.

When it comes to the war between the churches, I stand where you stand–Would my god damn someone for their actions, or their beliefs? I think not. This has essentially forced me to reject all organized religion because of the way they tend to place their beliefs and judgements on the follower.

As to what you are…you are Satan(I’da called you by your real name instead, but I don’t know it). And I am GaWd…I’m not simply a jew, ya know?

Either way, I can’t bring myself to join one religion or another, so I’ll continue to hold my personal beliefs until the day comes that I can finally proclaim that I belong to a certain belief(basically when I finally grow up).

ME

Oh, I hope that never happens! :smiley:

Esprix


Ask the Gay Guy! (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, Asketh the damn Priest Guy!)

Libertarian wrote:

Thank you, Deepak Chopra.

Seriously, this view that spirit or consciousness is primary and that matter arises from it is common in Eastern philosophies, and some attempt to justify it by looking at Quantum Mechanics and the observer effect therein.

It is an interesting topic I go over with my wife quite often. I the materialist, she the idealist/panpsychist. Materialist == someone who believes that matter is primary and consciousness arises from chemical reactions etc. in the brain, idealist == someone who believes that consciousness is primary and matter arises therefrom.

Perhaps a new topic is in order… I may search the archives to see if this has been done to death…

GaWd wrote:

That’s what they call the Civil War in the Southern states, right?