"Polite" things that are actually impolite

[raventhief]

@UDS

No poster has said that they would be offended by this, or that they know anyone who would be. The only claim is that they were raised with, or told of, a rule of ettiquette to the effect that grooms are congratulated, but brides are wished well. This is an admittedly old-fashioned rule, and nobody has suggested that a failure to observe it gives offence.

What’s actually going on here, I think, is an expansion of the sense of the word “congratulate”. Originally, to congratulate somebody was to acknowledge and celebrate their good fortune. Thus, you might congratulate somebody on a lucky escape, but you wouldn’t congratulate someone on passing an exam because that would imply that he was lucky to do so and, by rights, he ought to have failed. That distinction has largely been lost, but it is preserved in the (now obsolete) rule of ettiquette, because congratulating a woman on her engagement or marriage used to imply that she was, frankly, lucky to have landed a solvent man, with all his own teeth and limbs.

Are you sure NO poster has said that she or anyone she knows would be offended by this?

@ZPG_Zealot

Weddings are the kind of high events in life that deserve good taste and at least respectful behavior. Saying “Congratulations” to a bride is neither. If someone cannot conduct themselves at a wedding without insulting the participants, they should simply not attend the wedding or comment on it.

@ZPG_Zealot

The problem is plenty of people don’t act this way out good-hearted miss intentions. They do it because its a passive-aggressive way of insulting someone. Or because they are too lazy to open an etiquette book which is rather insulting in its own way. It implies they view courtesy to those around them is not worth their time and effort.

@ZPG_Zealot

It’s considered insulting to imply a woman was out “hunting” her groom and won him as some sort of prize.

@ZPG_Zealot

In the real world, people can be insulted by this breach of manners. I wrote off a few acquaintances for this insult and my last wedding was decades ago. Formal etiquette is what allows people (even absolute enemies) to interact with other in a sane manner. It’s an important tool for maintaining a civil society, not something to be thrown aside out of laziness.

@ZPG_Zealot

In plenty of people’s minds it most certainly does. Most everyone I know would be damn upset (as in Perhaps you should leave my wedding now) over such a tacky remark. Once again, if you can’t go to a wedding without passive-aggressively insulting the bride, you shouldn’t attend.

[Kent_Clark]

@ZPG_Zealot

You must not get out much. IT DOES HAPPEN. I’ve seen friendships ruined over it. It’s an extremely popular way for Southern sorority girls to be bitchy to each other and also to signal who they will be snubbing in the future. Hell, in arranged marriages, I have seen the marriage end before the reception begins because of what the groom and his family think about the bride as a result of such comments.

Yeah, I’m familiar with the rule. In the world of Old South formality it’s right up there with Scarlett and Rhett dancing while she’s wearing black.

If one were to base standards on the behavior of Southern sorority girls, then of course offense does happen. This is the same strain of Southern “gentility” that can turn “Bless your heart” into the verbal equivalent of spitting in your face.

And if one thinks saying congratulations is a thinly veiled way for the groom’s family to show contempt for the bride, then one has never heard the many inflections of “Welcome to the family” uttered by maiden aunts.

[wonky]

I’m amused when people think WASP etiquette guides are holy writ.

The goal of etiquette should be to make people feel comfortable and valued. A great many people view it as a way to make others feel small and tacky and, most importantly, not from the right family/background/class/race.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@jsgoddess

I’m amused when people think WASP etiquette guides are holy writ.

The goal of etiquette should be to make people feel comfortable and valued. A great many people view it as a way to make others feel small and tacky and, most importantly, not from the right family/background/class/race.

Precisely–and in that case I think it renders the word “etiquette” meaningless to attach it to such vile behavior.

[joyfool]

@jsgoddess

I’m amused when people think WASP etiquette guides are holy writ.

The goal of etiquette should be to make people feel comfortable and valued. A great many people view it as a way to make others feel small and tacky and, most importantly, not from the right family/background/class/race.

Sometimes there’s much value in being happily clueless. You don’t get offended by a bunch of made-up nonsense.

[Pai325]

@Turpentine

Just to add to the sample size-

I’m baffled by the idea that saying congratulations to a bride is rude. I was congratulated numerous times on my own wedding day, and I’m pretty sure that each and every time I smiled and said “Thank you!” Never occurred to me that it could be construed as offensive.

I’m also sure I’ve congratulated other brides at their weddings, and nobody’s ever appeared offended. I would have been shocked and confused if I were asked to leave for having done so.

If someone had been offended, it would have been much ruder for them to let you know or ask you to leave.

I grew up in a never “Congratlate the bride family” but I was congratulated at my wedding, too.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@UDS

No poster has said that they would be offended by this, or that they know anyone who would be. The only claim is that they were raised with, or told of, a rule of ettiquette to the effect that grooms are congratulated, but brides are wished well. This is an admittedly old-fashioned rule, and nobody has suggested that a failure to observe it gives offence.

I believe you are mistaken in that.

[JackieLikesVariety]

sometimes people just skim posts…

I am left with the impression that ZPG Zealot was raised in 17th century Vienna.

I like this

[Rick_Kitchen]

I have read of cases where a person in a car has stopped in order to let a pedestrian pass in front of them, and another car has come roaring up along side them and hit the pedestrian, and the pedestrian has successfully sued the driver who stopped for them.

[Nava]

@elbows

I am left with the impression that ZPG Zealot was raised in 17th century Vienna. Or is stuck in a time warp perhaps?

Nah, they spoke German… there would be more umlauts.

[TokyoBayer]

Insisting that people join you for a drink, even just a sip.

No, I’m an alcoholic and if I have a sip, all bets are off. By the end of the night, I may have fucked your wife, stolen your car and hit you. So please be gracious.

In Japan, it’s quite normal to congratulate brides as well as women when they get engaged.

My mother explained the whole thing about never uttering that word to a woman in that situation, but it just seems to quaint to these ears.

@Rick_Kitchen

I have read of cases where a person in a car has stopped in order to let a pedestrian pass in front of them, and another car has come roaring up along side them and hit the pedestrian, and the pedestrian has successfully sued the driver who stopped for them.

This does sound like an urban legend. I would love to see a cite for that. I can’t see what the liability would be. The first driver is not forcing the pedestrian to move.

[Aussie_Fish]

@gigi

Old taint punch? No, you want to make a fresh batch for each wedding.

I’ve only posted about seven time in about ten years or so.

But I had to let you know Gigi … I found this rather amusing (as in, I pissed myself laughing). Thank You

[Doctor_Jackson]

@ZPG_Zealot

It’s like this large group of people announcing they never heard of closing a bathroom door when using the toilet.

Of course I close the bathroom door, wouldn’t want anyone to see me shaking my hand…

[Isamu]

I don’t like being called “gaijin san” much. The people who do so might think they are being polite, but they are not.

I don’t call you ajiajin san or even nihonjin san. I use the correct term to refer to you in whatever the situation between us calls for.

[Procrustus]

@TokyoBayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen
I have read of cases where a person in a car has stopped in order to let a pedestrian pass in front of them, and another car has come roaring up along side them and hit the pedestrian, and the pedestrian has successfully sued the driver who stopped for them.

This does sound like an urban legend. I would love to see a cite for that. I can’t see what the liability would be. The first driver is not forcing the pedestrian to move.

Usually the case is premised on the driver waving the pedestrian along, implying the “coast is clear.”

Here’s a discussion of the issue.

One example, from the article

In Massachusetts, the signaling motorist can be held liable if it wasn’t safe to cross the road when the signal is given. In Gennelly v. Leslie, 2003 WL 23016092 (Mass. Super. 2003), the Court rejected the defense that “My signal only meant that it was safe to cross my lane of traffic, not that the entire highway was safe.” Whether a defendant’s signal to cross was negligent will usually be a fact question, but a wave won’t always be interpreted simply as “I won’t hit you.”

[PeskiPiksi]

This thread has reminded me of a passage from Anne of Green Gables that has always stuck with me:

What if I shouldn’t behave properly? You know I never had tea at a manse before, and I’m not sure that I know all the rules of etiquette, although I’ve been studying the rules given in the Etiquette Department of the Family Herald ever since I came here. I’m so afraid I’ll do something silly or forget to do something I should do. Would it be good manners to take a second helping of anything if you wanted to VERY much?”

“The trouble with you, Anne, is that you’re thinking too much about yourself. You should just think of Mrs. Allan and what would be nicest and most agreeable to her,” said Marilla, hitting for once in her life on a very sound and pithy piece of advice. Anne instantly realized this.

“You are right, Marilla. I’ll try not to think about myself at all.”

Count me in as one who had heard of the “no congrats to the bride” rule, but who would never dream of being offended by it. Far more important than the actual words is the intent *behind *the words. 99.999% of the time (in this day and age), the intent is going to be kind, so one should accept the congratulations with a smile and a thank you.

[Gary_T]

@Isamu

I don’t like being called “gaijin san” much. The people who do so might think they are being polite, but they are not.

I don’t call you ajiajin san or even nihonjin san. I use the correct term to refer to you in whatever the situation between us calls for.

Wow, that’s great. Now if I only knew what the hell you were talking about.

[ZPG_Zealot]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Oh for fuck’s sake. You didn’t do the experiment, did you? You’d prefer to maintain your fantasy that people know about this rule than actually to find out.

It’s scary to realize you’re wrong, so I understand why you won’t actually ask the people around you. Here’s hoping some day you find the courage to test your assumptions.

There have been plenty of weddings among my co-workers and students at the university. The last batch was 4 in the month of June. I attended a lovely wedding two weekends ago. Not once did I hear anyone be so rude as to say congratulations to a bride. The only time I have ever encountered anyone saying congratulations to a bride was doing graduate work at the University of Alabama. It was how bitchy Kappa Deltas, Chi Omegas, Tri-Deltas, etc., would say “fuck you, tramp,” without having to curse when some working class woman got engaged or worse (in their minds) succeeded in marrying an upper-middle class man.

[Procrustus]

@ZPG_Zealot

There have been plenty of weddings among my co-workers and students at the university. The last batch was 4 in the month of June. I attended a lovely wedding two weekends ago. Not once did I hear anyone be so rude as to say congratulations to a bride. The only time I have ever encountered anyone saying congratulations to a bride was doing graduate work at the University of Alabama. It was how bitchy Kappa Deltas, Chi Omegas, Tri-Deltas, etc., would say “fuck you, tramp,” without having to curse when some working class woman got engaged or worse (in their minds) succeeded in marrying an upper-middle class man.

The delicious part is that the bride would have no idea she’s being insulted. Nor would anyone else, in all likelihood.

[Don_t_Panic]

@ZPG_Zealot

The only time I have ever encountered anyone saying congratulations to a bride was doing graduate work at the University of Alabama. It was how bitchy Kappa Deltas, Chi Omegas, Tri-Deltas, etc., would say “fuck you, tramp,” without having to curse when some working class woman got engaged or worse (in their minds) succeeded in marrying an upper-middle class man.

So… you observed them say “congratulations”. But where did you get the information about their intent? Did you ask them? Read their minds? Or are you just making up things in your head?