Poll about taking the lord's name in vain

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Jragon

Yes, fine, I agree, but we’re not talking about people who overreact and get all huffy over it, we’re talking about someone who can take it, but due to whatever reason would prefer you refrain. They know no offense is meant, they’re not going to get MAD at you for doing it, but it may make them a bit squirmy just because it’s been pounded into their brains for umpteen years, wouldn’t it be respectful to ease their squirmyness a bit?

To be perfectly honest, I’d probably do the exact same thing, if they got huffy I’d apologize and stop doing it around them though, but I would make a mental note that said person probably isn’t prime friendship material for me. Would you keep doing it around them even if they did get huffy until they left? Or would you cease and then just remember said person is no fun and then not actively pursue a friendship anymore?

I would stop if it looked like it was going to provoke a real confrontation, but would put them on the “no fun” list. I likely wouldn’t pursue any of these things to the point of real hostility. If someone says “please don’t take God’s name in vain” (which people have actually said to me), my typical response is, “I don’t believe in God.” I don’t say “fuck you” or anything. I think I once told someone (a friend’s rather uptight Christian date), that if she was really worried about it, I would stand clear so she wouldn’t get hit by the lightning bolt. My friend ended up corrupting her brains out eventually.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Nobody

I’ll be honest. Although I expected some people to say that they wouldn’t comply with the request, I didn’t expect anybody to get upset about such a request either.

It seems to me, the fact that the request is related to religion has something to do with some of the posters refusing the request, so let me ask, if somebody said instead “Would you please not swear in my presence?” Or, “Would you please not tell jokes about fill in the blank, it makes me feel uncomfortable.” Would you go along with the request then?

Not automatically. It would depend on the person and the context. I’d be nice to someone’s grandmother, or watch my mouth around somebody’s kids. If it was just one of my friends I’d tell him to bite me.

[Malacandra]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

No to both. but I might call him an asshole (depending on how big he was).

Not that there’s any comparison. There’s nothing derogatory or insulting about saying the words “God” or “Jesus.” They aren’t profanities. You can’t compare them to racial epithets, because those have no other purpose. That the names of gods can be used “in vain” is a pure religious belief. Asking someone not to do it is not about being hurt by hostile or insulting language (it’s neither), it’s about one person trying to stop another from committing what he believes is a sin. My analogies to asking someone else to refrain from wearing pork or asking a non-Muslim woman to cover her face are much more accurate.

Well, I’ll considerately refrain from wearing pork in your presence, as I feel it may stir unhappy memories of how your Mom got the family dog to play with you.

[Locrian]

@Nobody

It seems to me, the fact that the request is related to religion has something to do with some of the posters refusing the request, so let me ask, if somebody said instead “Would you please not swear in my presence?” Or, “Would you please not tell jokes about fill in the blank, it makes me feel uncomfortable.” Would you go along with the request then?

Since it’s a new question, I hope you won’t ignore this post.

Yes, I would absolutely stop swearing, and… wait for it, I’d actually apologize.

As other Dopers have pointed out here, saying Jesus or God in any fashion is not a swear, at least one I won’t recognize.

Non-religious swears, however, are a different boat ticket. I’ve posted here before about an ex-boss I had who was a wannabe Alpha male. By this, I mean he said “fuckin’” every third word whenever telling us about his weekend, kids, etc. To me, I’m not offended by hearing ‘fuckin’, but it shows unprofessionalism.

Swearing, cursing usually shows uneducated or rebellious behavior. Teens swear, kids swear, not us big people, but when we do, it makes us look untrustworthy or unethical in a sense. Swearing is slang meant to offend.

Using God, Jesus OTOH, as a swear or using in vain does not show an uneducated or unethical anything, it just offends a particular belief that depends on faith which can never be questioned because knowledge is a bad thing.

[raindog]

@Locrian

Absolutely NOT. Most likely, if the request WAS polite, I feel it’s my duty to politely request the complainer to stop believing in just bullshit. I would counter request that they actually go home and read their bible, beginning to end and quiz them the next day to see if they really had. If they DO read it, they wouldn’t need religion, if they didn’t I’d tell them that they really weren’t a believer anyway.

People who request such a thing are only making their own version of their religion, like all so-called believers do. They’re most likely thinking, “I’ll get points from the big guy if I make someone stop.”, or “If I allow this person to keep saying this, I’LL GO TO HELL!!!”

I really don’t think it’s polite to even believe in it, or smart, or responsible.

I cannot count the amount of times I’ve seen someone pound their virtual chests like this, and to a man I have never seen evidence that they themselves had any real working knowledge of the bible.

Not one.

That’s not to say that they can’t google up some stuff they’ve heard, or parrot some other commentary. But to be knowledgeable enough to quiz someone on what the bible actually says?

This, my friend, would make you a rare bird around here. I hope to be on the board when the next bible thread comes up in GD and see your contributions.

[Scougs]

This happened to me at work. I was working on a project with a guy. I said “Christ on a bike” at one point. He visibly winced, and said “please don’t say that - I find it really offensive”. I said “Oh sorry, didn’t realise” and never said anything similar in his presence again.

Short, simple conversation.

It doesn’t take much to make little adjustments to ensure we all get on in the workplace.

However, the time the same person decided to start pushing his beliefs on someone when he saw a copy of “The God Delusion” lying on their desk… well, he was politely told to keep his opinions to himself.

So if someone asks me, I’ll comply. But that’s as far as it goes.

I really hope the next door neighbours either never hear me with my Rampant Rabbit, or aren’t offended by “Oh God!”

[Kamino_Neko]

@Nobody

If you have no problem taking the lord’s name in vain, but did so around somebody who politely requested that you not do it in their presence, would you comply?

Of course I would. Doing otherwise would be what’s called, by those of us who like this whole ‘politeness’ thing, ‘being a raging asshole’.

[Acsenray]

@Nobody

Why would you consider them a freak?

1. Because they sincerely believe in the supernatural. (I list this first, but it’s probably the last in terms of severity.)
2. That the god they choose to believe in is a petty tyrant.
3. Because they believe in magic words.
4. Because they are offended by something so common and innocuous in our culture that most people hardly notice it. It’s like being offended by bikinis or men with long hair or women wearing trousers.
5. Because they are so offended that they seek to curb the speech of the people around them.
6. That they aren’t actually too ashamed to make such a childish request. It reflects an unhealthy degree of self-regard.

And what would happen if it was a co-worker, or somebody else that you had to associate with on a regular basis?

I would limit my association with them to the extent possible. It would require me to treat any of their opinions with enhanced scepticism.

[Czarcasm]

Why not-it’s only words, and I know others that work just as well to get my point across.

[Der_Trihs]

@Nobody

If you have no problem taking the lord’s name in vain, but did so around somebody who politely requested that you not do it in their presence, would you comply?

While I have no problems “taking the Lord’s name in vain”, the only time I do so is if I hurt myself and curse by reflex. In that case, I’m not going to react well at all to a lecture on language, polite or not.

[Jettboy]

Not really an issue; I don’t really use my third-generation-sailor vocabulary unless I know someone really well and am comfortable around them. The chance of anyone other than a pretty close friend hearing me say “Goddamnit!” or “Jesus H. Tap-Dancin’ Christ!” are pretty slim.

[Jophiel]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

What would you say if you’re a woman and a Muslim “politely” asked you to cover your face in his presence? It’s exactly the same thing.

Well, no it’s not. One is asking you to refrain from doing something and one is asking you to actively start doing something.

Asking a woman friend to not wear tube tops around them might be “the same thing”. Whether or not you’d think that was reasonable would be up to you.

[Guinastasia]

@Locrian

No, should’ve phrased the constitution thing better…

Yes, you’re right they can spout off whenever they want to. I can say no thank you, not today, or fuck off you stupid christian. In other words, I don’t HAVE to hear it or respect it.

Last year in Van Nuys, CA (little Mexico, as some call it), it was Easter Sunday. On a corner near Van Nuys Bl, there was some tie up at a light. On the corner was a man with one o’ them ancient speakers around his neck with a mike attached. He was spouting in Latin American Spanish about Jesus. With each sentence, I held my horn, drowning out his distorted testimony. He got REAL angry after about five straight minutes of this, dropped his pamphlets and ran towards my car. I rolled down my window and we started arguing (me in English him in Spanish, so it wasn’t really going anywhere )

A cop on a bicycle saw him run towards me and interceded, pulling the yelling gentleman away. I said, “It’s alright, officer.” He asked me why all the noise with the horn. I said, “I was drowning him out.” He reminded me it was Easter Sunday and I replied with, “So?” He told me to just drive ahead when the lane’s clear. I said thank you. (Thank goodness I wasn’t in Burbank, CA, but there, the only Spanish people allowed are ones cleaning homes.) When I drove off, I did a little polite, donk-donk, with the horn and politely waved to them man who put the mike/speaker back on. He politely waved back too.

So, no fight, no tickets, no harm, no foul to either of us. I just thought if he should witness in public, I should disagree in public.

Well now, blaring on the horn isn’t just trying to drown someone out-you’re basically annoying EVERYONE around you. You don’t think that’s just as rude?

At the very least, it’s immature.

[panache45]

It depends how the request was made. If it’s made for the sake of taste and refinement and good manners, I’ll try to comply. But if it’s made for the sake of self-righteousness and holier-than-God narrowmindedness, I will not accommodate them.

[Malacandra]

@Der_Trihs

While I have no problems “taking the Lord’s name in vain”, the only time I do so is if I hurt myself and curse by reflex. In that case, I’m not going to react well at all to a lecture on language, polite or not.

Forgiven. As Pterry says, when you whack yourself on the thumb with an eight-pound hammer, it takes a special and strong-minded atheist to yell “Oh, random fluctuations in the space-time continuum!” or “Aargh, primitive-and-outmoded-concept on a crutch!”.

[JThunder]

@Red_Barchetta

Well that’s just too bad. It’s not mine, or anyone else’s problem, that some of them can’t deal with actions of those who don’t adhere to the same beliefs.

Y’know, it sounds to me like a lot of people don’t believe as you do. If they say it’s rude, are you going to disagree with them – perhaps go so far as to call them freaks?

[JThunder]

@Locrian

True. But isn’t it MY responsibility to reply with, “Jesus never existed”, or “there’s no god, sweetie.” I always add the “sweetie” in my reply to them. In essence, they are children.

Y’know, reading this thread provides several interesting examples of childish behavior.

[Red_Barchetta]

@JThunder

Y’know, it sounds to me like a lot of people don’t believe as you do. If they say it’s rude, are you going to disagree with them – perhaps go so far as to call them freaks?

I honestly have no idea what you’re getting at.

[Locrian]

@raindog

I cannot count the amount of times I’ve seen someone pound their virtual chests like this, and to a man I have never seen evidence that they themselves had any real working knowledge of the bible.

Not one.

That’s not to say that they can’t google up some stuff they’ve heard, or parrot some other commentary. But to be knowledgeable enough to quiz someone on what the bible actually says?

This, my friend, would make you a rare bird around here. I hope to be on the board when the next bible thread comes up in GD and see your contributions.

Read back, RD, I’ve already stated how I know that most believers don’t know their religion. I’ve misquoted the bible as much as believers do, but I never make up my own version, as believers always do.

[Locrian]

@Guinastasia

Well now, blaring on the horn isn’t just trying to drown someone out-you’re basically annoying EVERYONE around you. You don’t think that’s just as rude?

At the very least, it’s immature.

I absolutely disagree with your opinion. If the guy with the mike thinks it’s necessary to speak in public about religion, I feel it’s necessary to halt it. I showed a public disagreement towards religion. I think that’s why you call it immature. To me, immature is being religious. Maybe I annoyed other people around me, but more importantly, I SHOWED people not everyone thinks that way. Besides, Mr. Microphone did not exactly have an audience around, and Easter Sunday on Van Nuys Bl. is basically a ghost town.

Before you use immature, remember, it’d be easier to judge if you were there.