Well this just smacks of “buckeyes.” I don’t think an individual’s take on an offensive word should have that much power over the rest of us. Most believers I know say ‘jesus christ’, ‘goddamnit’ and ‘fercrissakes.’ These words have lost their “brand rights” much like Kleenex and Coke. I suppose I could try to curtail it for someone close to me, but there are no guarantees. It’s part of the common vernacular these days.
It’s not being rude. It’s just declining to acquiesce to a rude request.
I strongly disagree that simply declining a request to practice someone else’s religion is rude.
It’s more than endorsing religion, it’s practicing it.
Who has said they were defending the downtrodden? It’s not about being provacative or iconoclastic (at least not to me), I just don’t have the slightest inclination to practice someone else’s religion, and I will politely decline any request that I do so.
So you think that declining to use God’s name in a colloquial expression – in other words, just modifying one’s speech to avoid needless offense – is the same as worshipping the Lord God Almighty?
Sheesh. Thankfully, most of the atheists in this thread don’t hold to such an extreme view.
If you take vitamins and don’t see a psychiatrist, does that make you a scientologist?
One more aspect of “disturbing the peace”, as I just remembered MY Easter Sunday this year. Both my father and I were sick. Dad has had the flu for the past few weeks and spent most of the day napping-either on the sofa or in his room. I also spent most of the day sleeping, the victim of one of the most hideous migraines known to man. If someone started honking on his horn repeatedly outside, I’d call that disturbing the peace.
But seriously-if someone asked you not to say the word “Fuck”, would you do it? Or what if the person asking you not to take the name of the lord in vain was say, your grandmother?
Of course not. And I don’t accept that using those words causes any “needless offense.”
It’s engaging in specific religious practices. It’s possible to engage in practices without being a believer. I never said acquiescing to a request to practice a superstitious avoidance of saying magic words would make me a believer, only that it would definitely be engaging in a practice.
You specifically said that choosing alternative expressions that don’t invoke God’s name is the same as practicing that religion – in other words, worshipping the God in question. Now you’re backpedalling from that view.
So you’re either saying that the words would never cause offense (which is obviously untrue), or that using those specific words is absolutely necessary.
Dude, you need to chill out. Seriously.
So are “fuck”, “aks” and “i can haz”, but I assume you don’t believe that they’re always appropriate.
When dealing with ethical dilemmas, I always like to ask myself the flip question. It comes from “Do unto others as you want them to do unto you.”
So, those of you who have said you would not comply with a request not to use “God” around them: Suppose someone was using a racial or ethnic slur (“Jew him down” or “wop” or “Chink” or whatever) that you found offensive, and you asked the person (politely) please not to say that. How would you want the person to respond to you? I’m presuming you would want them to comply, politely.
So, if someone asks you to please not say something in their presence because they find it offensive… why on earth would you not comply? They’re not asking you to change your beliefs, they’re not asking you to change what you say outside their presence, they’re asking you to show them some common courtesy.
(I agree, if the request is a command or insult rather than polite, it’s a different ball game.)
No, I don’t. However, asking someone to refrain from using it is what we’re talking about. By asking someone not to say it, you’re in effect asking them to practice your religious beliefs. Most of us don’t drop the “o” in god, either. We all know that some people find that offensive, yet most of us continue to include it in the written word.
How do we know which god the person is referring to when they say “goddamn?” Maybe you’re not offended in the least if its the muslim god’s name that’s being used in vain. There are just too many assumptions and preferences involved.
No. Practice and worship are two different things. You can engage in a religious practice without believing in any of it.
I’m saying it’s not offensive any more than eating a burger is offensive to Hindus. There’s certainly no insult or injury. Any imagined “offense” taken by them is delusional and self-absorbed.
We’ve already addressed this comparison. Firstly, the comparison is inaccurate because racial epithets are intended as insults and verbal attacks while vernacular incantations of the names of gods are not. Secondly, I’ve already said that I would NOT ask another person to refrain from racial epitaths. They have a right to say them, and getting them to stop expressing their racism in my presence would not stop them from being racist anyway. My inclination would be to try to engage them in a discussion of WHY they feel that way. If I hear someone saying “kike,” simply asking them not to say it is unproductive, evasive and pointless. I’d rather force them to try to justify their antisemitism, make them see how irrational it is and failing that, avoid any further association with them. Simply asking them not to say the K-word does nothing but shove the elephant under the carpet.
Having said that, I will again reiterate that I don’t accept that the comparison to saying Jehovah is valid.
Let’s not play word games here. If you’re practicing a theistic religion, then you’re worshipping the deity of that religion. Otherwise, you’re just going through the motions. You know that as well as I do.
But even if that weren’t the case, it’s a huge stretch to say that refraining from the use of any particular expression is equivalent to practicing a particular religion. I’m not inclined to say “For Allah’s sake!”, but does that mean that I practice Islam? Fair-minded and free-thinking individuals would say no.
Let’s just say that when it comes to disdaining religion, Dio, you usually resort to wild hyperbole.
Of course you’re just going through the motions. That’s my point. Practice =/= worship. I have no desire to do either.
It’s engaging in a particular practice. It’s not accurate to keep trying to extropolate that as being equivalent to a statement that I believe I would be actually converting to that religion.
Wearing a yarmulke is a Jewish religious practice. That doesn’t mean that wearing a yarmulke makes you Jewish, but it IS a religious practice, is it not?
OK, well then asking me to observe a superstitious fear of magic words is the same as someone asking me to wear a yarmulke in his presence. It’s a ridiculous and inappropriate request. The answer is no, and the person making the request is not injured just because I decline to observe a particular religious practice with them.
Would you refrain from eating bacon if a Muslim asked you to?
I don’t disdain religion, I just don’t believe in any of it and have no desire to practice any of it.
But you’re only using those words because they still have power over you.
When people make a request like this, they are asking you to share part of their religious pactice – abstaining from using certain magic words in certain ways. By agreeing to this you are agreeing to follow some of their religious dogma, despite the fact you are going through the motions and share none of their faith.
They may not understand that latter part – most likely they assume (because almost every Christian I know assumes everyone around them is also christian) you share at least some of their beliefs. In these cases they may actually assume they are “helping” you become a better, more devout christian.
No, I use them because they are an ingrained part of my cultural vernacular. Actually, my use of them tend more to be a softening of my normal patois more than an intensification of it. I say “goddamn snow” instead of “Motherfucking, cocksucking snow,” when I want to tone things down and use more innocuous langiage.
Nonsense. If I refrain from using the word “Allah” flippantly, does this mean that I am engaging in Islamic rituals? Obviously not. People would consider this to be “religious practice” if they harbor an intense and over-the-top hatred for any sort of religious trappings.
The more people argue that this is some form of “religious practice,” the more ridiculous that stance becomes.
It’s not a ritual, its a proscription. It’s a different kind of practice, but still a practice (and I don’t believe anyone in this thread has called it a “ritual.” I know I haven’t). Anyway, the answer is yes, you would be observing an Islamic religious proscription.
Are religious proscriptions not practices? Is keeping kosher not a religious practice.