Why would anyone make such a request unless those words offended their religious sensibilities? I can’t imagine it violates the tenets of their faith to hear such words; no, it violates, er, whichever commandment says “do not take the lord’s name in vain.” They are asking you not to violate the commandment. It is clearly and unequivocally a religious practice.
I’m not sure if there is a Muslim equivalent, though I know that there were riots throughout Europe because a cartoonist drew a picture of allah instead of refraining. It is exactly the same thing except for the level of zealotry.
Is this discussion about
[ol]
[li]using “God” as a curse or part of a curse?[/li][li]using “God” in any conversational manner except as a religiously directed blessing?[/li][li]using “God” to falsely solemnize a vow or a committment or a contract?[/li][/ol]
Cause while I’ve known some people to be upset or offended by 1 and 2, I thought that only the last was actually “in vain”.
I believe what he was saying is, if you normally ate shellfish all the time and then a Jew asked you not to eat it and you didn’t … then you’d be practicing a tenet of Judaism.
I would defintiely agree with you if a Jew told me the Lord would appreciate me not eating shellfish. Otherwise, I dunno, do Jews have something about shellfish? My ignorance of religious practices is pretty broad. I wouldn’t automatically assume the request was religiously based. Whether or not, if I liked shellfish, I would eat shellfish. But I don’t so I wouldn’t.
Hmmm. What if this was the question – if a vegetarian asked you not to have meat with your meal while in their presence, would you do it?
In their home, absolutely. Almost anywhere else, probably not, because there are very few vegetarian dishes I like.
I strongly disagree. You can have all the external trappings (e.g. not eating beef) without engaging in the actual religious practice (e.g. abstaining from beef due to Hindu teachings).
But for the sake of argument, let’s grant your objection. How does this justify what Diogenes has been saying? Quite obviously, it doesn’t. Dio didn’t simply say that you would be engaging in a religous practice; rather, he said,
“It’s more than endorsing religion, it’s practicing it.”
In other words, if you don’t use the name of God in a flippant, irreverent manner, then you aren’t just following a Christian practice. Rather, you are actively engaged in practicing Christianity. Do you not see the huge leap of logic involved in that statement?
I disagree entirely. When they refrain from using those words, it’s a religious practice, because they are acting (or not acting) to please God. When I refrain from using those words around them, it’s not because I want to please God, it’s because I want to make someone else more comfortable. Therefore, my action (or inaction) is not religious in nature.
No, it not, because the rioters were reacting to the existence of the cartoons, not simply the fact that they were exposed to them. The message of the riots was, “No one should ever be able to say these sorts of things, anywhere.” That’s not remotely the same as asking someone to avoid certain words while you’re talking directly to them.
No Diogenes is saying if you refrain from “using the lord’s name in vain” at the explicit request of someone, per the OP, then you are following their religious practice, i.e., obeying the commandment of not taking the lord’s name in vain.
If your normal practice is to not swear in conjunction with ‘god’ or ‘lord’, or whatever, for reasons other than obeying a commandment, then you are not carrying out a religious practice.
I must admit to curiosity. What is your rationale for believing that if someone asks you not to use the lord’s name in vain, and you know that not using the lord’s name in vain is one of the ten christian commandments, they are NOT asking you to obey a religious precept?
With all due respect, did you even read the quoted section? The part that says, “It’s more than endorsing religion, it’s practicing it”? (The “it,” in this context, being religion.)
And in case that’s not enough, you also have the following gems:
“I just don’t have the slightest inclination to practice someone else’s religion.”
"I strongly disagree that simply declining a request to practice someone else’s religion is rude. "
No matter what you might say, his comments were about practicing a particular religion, and not just an isolated religious practice.
No I didn’t, as I’ve explained over and over again. Unless you want to argue that observing religious proscriptions don’t count as religious “practices,” then you don’t have a leg to stand on.
Imagine you’re working in an office bulding. You are enjoying a BLT at your desk during lunch. A Muslim coworker asks you “politely” if you would refrain from eating pork in his presence because he finds it offensive. Do you comply, yes or no?
I certainly moderate my language around not only people who ask me to, but also around people who I suspect would appreciate it.
On the other hand, try on this analogy:
A neighbor kisses his wife goodbye when he leaves for work each morning. One day, he sees you kissing your same-sex partner goodbye when you leave for work in the morning. His six-year-old son sees you do it. He makes a request couched in polite language: “I’m really sorry, but my religion does not condone homosexuality, and I’m not ready to have that conversation yet with my son. Would you mind terribly not kissing your partern goodbye where my son can see you?”
In that situation, I’d be furious, and I’d probably refuse to comply. In my gut I feel tehre’s a relevant difference, but I can’t find it.
Cite those statements. I said precisely the opposite. I said that observing one religious practice does NOT make you a member of that religion. Learn how to read.
This is a pathetic attempt at a gotcha. It’s engaging in A religious practice, ok? I never said that engaging in A religious practice made you a member of that religion. Even engaging in EVERY practice of a religion is not equivalent to worship or faith or belief. Keeping kosher doesn’t make you Jewish, but it’s still a religious practice.
Diogenes, it appears to me that you’ve been engaging in a Christian practice in this thread–namely, I haven’t seen you once take the Lord’s name in vain in this thread. Is that correct, that you’ve been practicing a tenet of the Christian faith here? Am I further correct that for many hours a night you continue to practice not only this tenet of the CHristian faith, but also some key tenets of other faiths (not eating shellfish, not eating pork, not drinking alcohol, not engaging in extramarital sex, etc.)? Again, if I’m incorrect, how so?