I knew he was joking, if that’s what you meant.
I was thinking about that story about Pajama Pants girl… remember that?
I just got caught up on this thread.
I’ll usually throw on jeans when I’m going out, because my sweatpants are mostly pretty sloppy. Once in awhile, I’ll run to the convenience store or Dunkin Donuts in one of the pairs without any holes in them.
With that said, I’ve never spent more than a couple of seconds thinking about what someone else was wearing in WalMart or a bar or anywhere else informal, and saying that you do makes you sound like a judgemental prick. Sorry, all.
Even past that, though - saying that sweatpants (or yoga pants, et al) aren’t pants, or worse, are undergarments, because they lack zippers, is insane. They’re the same thing as pants without zippers (widely available at every price point), only with thicker material.
Looking “cute,” as Indygrrl and DianaG have assured us they always look, almost cost me the love of my life. See, at the time I met my husband I was dating a Harvard Business School student who drove a Ferrari (sheer boredom on both our parts, we really had nothing in common but we were both amused to see how the “other half” lived, and we were both tolerant of each other’s radically different world view).
Anyway, I used to accompany Mr. HBS Ferrari when he’d meet a classmate, let’s call him Mike, with whom he was doing a joint project (Mike was not an HBS student, he attended a different grad program not known for making people rich). Mike pretty clearly disdained me, for reasons I couldn’t understand at all, since Mike was actually my kinda person - smart, nerdy, gentle, not interested in money or appearances.
Fast forward a few months, and I broke up with Mr. HBS Ferrari but began attending the same graduate program as Mike and got to know him better without the ex in tow. The rest is history; we’ve been married for 26 years and our love is stronger than ever. “Mike” is the best man in the world - caring, thoughtful, a wonderful dad to our son, and someone I can talk to about anything.
So one day after our relationship was established I thought to ask “hey Mike, why’d you always hate me so much when I first met you and I was dating Mr. HBS Ferrari?”
His answer: “well, what did you expect me to think? You were attending a 7 Sisters School, dating a Harvard Business School student who drove a Ferrari, and to top it all off, you always had that perfect haircut. Naturally, I thought you were a superficial type into status, money, and appearances - what else would I assume?”
So, I was negatively judged for looking too well coiffed. A mistake on Mike’s part, but luckily one that was later rectified.
And that’s how the “evolutionary desire” thing has worked out for me. Dodged a bullet on that one, I did.
On the raging sweatpants vs. no sweatpants debate, I can see both sides of the issue.
- It is good to make some effort to look presentable when you go out. (e.g. I personally don’t go out in sweatpants. I don’t even wear jeans because I think they are work clothes.)
- But it is also true that judging people based on clothes is like judging them based on their accent or other superficial aspects - when you get right down to it, it’s silly.
- The clothes that are considered “acceptable” change from country to country and over time so much that it’s obvious how arbitrary any one person’s opinion is. Several people have said “I go out in cute jeans.” I’m sure that in the '60s going out in “cute” jeans would have been sloppy and slovenly unless you were a bead-wearing hippy. I know that where I grew up, women past a certain age wouldn’t be caught dead in pants. I remember being surprised when my mom came to the US and bought herself pants to wear - not that I really cared, but I wasn’t used to seeing her in pants when she went out. this is where what I believe (and stated in point 1) can start to sound ridiculous - one person’s “acceptable” is another person’s “tacky”. Should I get an opinion poll from the neighbourhood or a fashion magazine to decide how to dress myself? No. I should wear what I feel like.
- If the object is to look dignified, then sweat pants are right out. But then several people have said “I want to look ‘cute’”. From a guy’s point of view, it is very possible for a woman to look attractive when wearing sweat pants. I also know that women judge each other more severly when it comes to clothes / makeup / hairdo etc. than men do. Being a man, I am tempted to say that this makes us males more “rational”! But I’m sure that if I said anything like that I would be carried out of town on a rail.
Also, I don’t understand the compulsion to be dressing so that people will take a second glance and think “wow s/he’s hot”. When I go out I’m not always on the make. - I wonder if the difference between not wearing sweatpants to the grocery store is a difference between small-town life and big city life. I used to live in a small village (in Europe) and over there going to the store was a social occasion because you met your friends and would chat. Now that I live in a metropolitan area, going to the grocery store is not considered a social occasion, it’s an errand. Going out for drinks or to a restaurant is a social occasion.
P.S. Those who wear sweat pants to the grocery store will have to bear with fortitude the fact that some people will be thinking them slovenly. Those who dress up and wear make up to go pump gas or the neighborhood barbeque run the risk of having other judgmental people think “who does s/he think s/he is? That’s just overdressed and inappropriate.” Such is life. But we must carry on with a stiff upper lip regardless.
Today I went to the grocery store and I saw a woman wearing something like this. I’m guessing she had stopped by the store while jogging or riding her bike, and she had a great body. I know I wasn’t hatin’.
Inappropriate? Un-cute? I’m curious what the fashionistas have to say.
If sweatpants are the epitome of slobbishness, does that rule out any kind of drawstring pant? Like those cotton capris Old Navy et al. sells? What about hospital scrub bottoms? Leggings? Palazzo pants?
I agree that some sweatpants are horrible and some people have body types that don’t look good in them (like the older woman in that picture way back). But the “no pants without fasteners” rule condemns a lot of stuff.
And also, as CairoCarol relayed, dressing “down” is a perfectly acceptable way of picking up the opposite sex…if you’re looking for a “dressed down” kind of person.
Excellent post, btw.
Has this series of events ever actually happened to you? If I thought this had even a faint glimmer of a chance of happening, maybe I would want to dress up all the time too. But, here’s the deal - I am a grad student and don’t own a car. If I go to the gas station near my house it’s because I am studying/grading/etc deep into the evening and realized that I need emergency supplies of caffeine and the grocery store is too far away. I consider this a perfectly appropriate time to wear sweatpants and I can guarantee you 100% that I won’t find myself suddenly needing to perform some fine dining.
And quite frankly, it seems rather bizarrely arbitrary. Perhaps it’s handed down from some sort of reverse-Amish religion?
Jeans are no-brainer attire as well. Slip on your jeans and just about any top because they go with, well, just about everything. You don’t really even have to think about making an outfit much. That’s so much more effort than throwing on athletic pants and a t-shirt. Right. Cheesecake Factory…a bit more upscale than Friday’s but not Michelin rated. Pretty sure they aren’t going to kick someone out for wearing sweats. Would I wear them there? Probably not, but then for me, going out to dinner (even there) is not a hum-drum everyday affair. It’s sort of like whether I find it necessary to put make-up on to go grocery shopping or even clothes shopping. Not so much. But if I’m going out to dinner, I’m probably going to make more of an effort to “dress up.”
Well, they aren’t as plentiful as I’d like in my price range. As I mentioned, weird figures make it harder to find a decent fit. I’m not just saying that. I’m so glad you’re fortunate not to have to deal with spending hours in dressing rooms with armloads of clothes, failing repeatedly to find something that works. It’s truly a blast! :mad:
You’d be right. I’m not too busy, I care, to an extent (though obviously not to the extent you seem to care) and my better things to do are usually surfing the net or taking a nap. I wear yoga pants (assuming you feel the same way about these as you do about sweats which I never wear) because they are comfortable and that is more important to me than what snobs at the grocery store think about my wearing them.
I can assure you it takes longer than an hour for me to find some decent-fitting non-slophappy pants, but if you’re buying, I’ll give it a shot. Things are little tight in the wallet right now, what with the economy making mincemeat out of my paycheck and I’m lucky to get scheduled 10 hours/week.
I always look bloated in sweatpants and they remind me of 7th grade gym class. Especially the kind with the elastic around the ankles. How do people work out in them? I’d spontaneously combust.
Good grief. Y’all make me want to wear sweatpants, so I can play “Count the fainting blossoms” at the grocery store.
Daniel
Speaking from my male perspective, if we are talking about true, potato-sacklike sweatpants, nobody should wear them except on the way to the gym, at the gym, coming home from the gym. Do not stop for gas, do not stop for groceries, just go home and put some damn clothes on. With regard to workout clothes generally, the women’s are generally designed to be better looking anyway, so in a lot of instances I think it’s OK for them to do some shopping, have lunch, whatever. But it depends on the clothes. 1970s style running shorts with white piping, Ummm, no. Calf-length tights or those tights that flare out at the bottom, like all the women yoga teachers seem to be wearing, why not?
But in addition to being male I am speaking from an L.A. perspective, and standards here tend to be pretty relaxed.
Ha!
Perhaps the frumps and the fashionistas are talking past one another.
As a general rule, I agree that:
[ul]
[li]Sweatpants, or any other kind of athletic pant, have no place in funerals, baptisms, swearing-ins, or court appearances.[/li][li]Sweatpants are generally not appropriate attire for jobs in which you interact with the public. Unless, of course, that job is in a gym.[/li][li]Sweatpants are not appropriate for fine dining.[/li][/ul]
Which leaves a lot of leeway. The most important thing IMO about what you wear - whatever it is - is that it fits you appropriately, is flattering or neutral on your figure, and is clean. I think a majority of people subscribe to this philosophy. I’m not going out in a pair of slacks and a Polo shirt if I’ve just spilled spaghetti sauce on myself. Nor will I venture out in “highwater” slacks. Having said that, if an emergency breaks out, or the wife asks me to get some diapers at WalMart, you just might see me in some odd ensemble.
I don’t want to make it sound like I’m some enlightened being that doesn’t notice unflattering clothing or slovenly dress. But honestly, I notice things like excessive perfume or cologne, intense BO, or people who clearly dress inappropriately for the situation (think someone in a three piece suit at the supermarket, or sweaty sweatpants guy at church). But my assumption is that person is probably en route somewhere, or something came up. If I give it more than one millisecond of thought, that is.
My earlier point about incomplete data - those of you who think it’s tacky to see someone in very casual clothes in public, do you ever consider the fact that maybe they are as fashion conscious as you, but perhaps circumstances have not worked in their favor? Maybe they just moved to town and they have one clean outfit. Maybe their washing machine is broken. Maybe they work an odd shift and are running an errand for someone at home before bed. Maybe, in this shitty economy, they don’t have money to replace their tattered clothes.
Case in point in the converse: I often stop at the supermarket in a suit, or a shirt and tie. Not because I give a shit what people think I look like in the store, but because I usually stop by after I give a lecture. If you assumed I went to such efforts to appease the public, you’d be very mistaken.
Do people really look for dates in the supermarket and Walmart, anyway? I mean, I know it happens, but is it a common enough occurrence to be concerned about?
Well. that’s kind of my point, actually. It’s NOT any harder to throw on some jeans, and they DO go with everything, and pretty much anywhere. So unless you see fastening a button and a zipper as some monumental effort, why wouldn’t you choose the jeans?
That said, I hereby concede that all jeans are not created equal, and neither are all “sweats”. I would consider these outfits far worse than this. And that when I’ve been saying “sweats”, I’ve been visualizing this or this or this.
You’re right, you’re not going to be refused at the Cheesecake Factory for wearing sweats, but I was thinking more “somewhere without a children’s menu”. I go out to dinner all the time. It’s not an event, it’s just part of my day. I’m hardly ever “just” going to the grocery store. In fact I was baffled by the idea that anyone is “overdressed for the grocery store”, because in my mind, they’re obviously on their way to or from somewhere else. Someone upthread linked to some workout clothes and asked if those were “acceptable”, and yeah, I wouldn’t think anything about those except that this person is clearly on their way home from the gym. Honestly, I feel like it’s pretty easy to tell who’s in transit, and who actually lives in sweatpants. There’s a definite aura of despair around the latter.
Someone upthread also said that sweats would feel like “giving up on life”, and that’s exactly how I feel. When you throw on a pair of sweatpants, it’s like saying “this day holds no surprises for me”. It’s closing yourself off to the possibilities. I’m a very spontaneous person, I can’t imagine purposely dressing to leave the house in a way that would so seriously limit my options. If I run into a friend and we decide we’d like to go get a drink, I want to be able to go get a drink.
Except that I’m hard to fit as well, and “never, ever pay full price” is as close to a religious belief as I have. Yeah, it takes some work. I’m worth it.
I’m sorry for your troubles. I hope that things get better for you soon. 
If so, I consider it a first test. Anyone who considers sweatpants in the cornerstore to be an instant dealbreaker - I mean, what kind of relationship could we ever have anyway?
I frequently wear track pants when it’s cold and wet and I want to be comfortable. I do make an effort to be reasonably put-together otherwise so I don’t look like a total slob. If I had to actually conduct business with someone, I’d dress more appropriately. But track pants are fine for 90% of what I have to do.
OTOH, I wouldn’t wear sweatpants in public unless I had to out of necessity, such as stopping for a quart of milk at the corner store. They’re also fine for activities that don’t require getting out of the car. I also wore them to school once in a while, just because I could.
But that’s just me. I don’t judge based on one item of clothing, though. People can be dressed up and still look like slobs. People can also wear the most casual clothing imaginable and still look good. I’d give a man in sweats a pass if he’s at Home Depot buying paint, but if he’s wearing a suit that clearly doesn’t fit him well, a tie with stains on it, and it’s obvious he’s been a few weeks too long without a haircut and his five o’clock shadow came in at three, my opinion of him isn’t going to be very high.
Robin
I find jeans to be hideously uncomfortable and I have a difficult time finding any pants that fit me. I’m blessed with a large bubble type butt… Think half an onion… All pants, with rare exception (and I save those for when I want to go go out somewhere casual but where I care what I look like) are too tight in the ass and too big in the waist. It’s awful shopping for pants. My wardrobe consists primarily of skirts, flowy gypsy type skirts or jean skirts and dresses. So, see, for me, a quick run to the school to drop off kids or a quick stop for gas is much more easily accomplished in some jogging pants or sweats as they actually fit my butt AND my waist.
Because for some figures, jeans are at the least uncomfortable and at the most painful. Think being cut in two by a denim waistband.
There you go. That’s where one’s M obviously MV. I hardly ever go out to dinner (once last year IIRC), and if I go anywhere on the weekend (other than the gym), it’s the grocery store. One single trip, and that’s the only place I’m going - so, it’s not obvious that I’m on my way to or from somewhere else. Of course, everyone isn’t like me, just like everyone isn’t like you.
That’s fine for you, but other people live different lives, and we’re OK with having one goal (errands) and not being likely to run into a friend and going for a drink. Some people don’t like surprises, and they’re OK with that.
I just remember the episode of Seinfeld what George started wearing sweats and Jerry told him, “You know the message you’re sending out to the world with these sweatpants? You’re telling the world, 'I give up. I can’t compete in normal society. I’m miserable, so I might as well be comfortable.”