Bears legend Brian Hoyer?
Did Bagent make the Raiders play a completely uninspired game with zero defensive intensity, incredibly soft against the run? The kid had a nice game, but Justin had a string of 5 really good games last year. I feel like that is constantly getting forgotten or ignored. We didn’t win any of those games because our defense was historically bad.
Justin’s good games last year were good running games. His passing numbers were mostly good in those games but we didn’t put up a lot of points, he took a lot of sacks and he turned the ball over. Also we lost most those games.
Stats don’t tell the whole story. Bagent had record low air yards but his play did contribute to the Raiders discouraged behavior. We held the ball most of the game and the Raiders could never get off the field. He was 12/19 on third down, Fields averages 33%. He made all the right checks at the line and exploited them when we had numbers. People forget that the QB plays a huge role in the running game based on adjustments at the line.
We need a larger sample size, for sure, but this was as stark a difference as you can imagine.
I think it’s an enormous overreaction to one game against a bad team, led by BRIAN HOYER, coached badly, playing with no heart, and with a defense on our side that is starting to play pretty good.
He looks like he can be a good backup QB. Bagent cannot be a starting QB for a playoff contender. He can’t throw 20 yards down the field. We’ve seen Shane Matthews and Steve Walsh before.
From Twitter from October 5th: “Over the last 14 games the Chicago Bears have given up an embarrassing 33.5 points per game. If you took that same defense, and added it to the Chiefs offense over the same period, the Chiefs would have gone 2-12”
You keep using wins and losses as “proof” about Justin. Patrick Mahomes himself would not be a winning QB on this Bears team the last couple of years.
Chicago has been starving and desperate for a good QB for all my life. We don’t know what good QB development looks like. We want instant gratification or we move on to the next guy. I’ve seen it happen so many times I can’t even count. Look around the league, how many current QBs are “great”. Mahomes for sure. Who else? Who else doesn’t have some concerns right now? Allen is bad this year. Burrow can’t stay healthy. Hurts isn’t as good as he was last year. Herbert? The Chargers aren’t looking that great right now. Can you name 4 “great” QBs right now that don’t have concerns among that team’s fanbase?
I want to see Justin play with our OLine healthy and playing the way they are now and with our defense playing the way it has the last few weeks. I’m not thrilled about the idea of drafting another QB and starting all over again, especially when Caleb Williams has the same concerns we have about Justin in the scounting report, and he seems to have some entitlement issues, if you believe the press.
Look, I like Bagent as a backup, but I think some of the fanbase is wildly overreacting and is getting way way ahead of themselves about him.
I’ve said that it’s a small sample size and probably an overreaction based on one game, but I don’t put much stock in the argument that the Raiders were flat. That Raiders team team was 3-3, coming off two straight wins. Hoyer being out there didn’t have anything to do with Bagent’s passing. We didn’t luck into that win, we asserted our will. We overcame a lot of dumb penalties and the score could have been a lot more lopsided.
This is completely speculative. Dude showed a plus arm at the combine. Not a single scout questioned his arm strength. And we saw him make some big boundary throws and throws on the move that noodle arm QBs can’t make. I have no fucking idea why the coaches thought Peterman was a better option for a Hail Mary, but at this stage it’s baseless to question his arm.
Points count. Last year we didn’t score points even when Fields was putting up empty stats. He’s no good in the Red Zone. This year Fields and Bagent have played exactly one good game apeaice. One guy is a rookie, one guy is in his 3rd year of getting all the first team reps in practice.
When we started game planning for Justin’s strengths last year after the mini-bye, starting with the win over New England, we scored 33,29,32, 30 and 24. That is a pretty good amount of points. Justin threw for 4 touchdowns 2 consecutive weeks just recently! It might have been 5 the one week. I still haven’t seen a shot of DJ Moore’s foot out of bounds on that one potential touchdown. DJ Moore was NFC offensive player of the week. That’s the first Bear receiver to do that since Marcus Robinson. He didn’t do that by himself.
For some reason the coaches threw that out this off-season and tried to make him something different than what he is. I blame everyone equally for the awful start of the year. The team wasn’t ready to start the season. The defense has started to play much better, the OLine has been playing better, aside from last week against Minnesota. We were also unprepared for that game. Starting from the first play of the game. If you remember Bagent also got strip sacked for a TD and threw a wounded duck interception at the end of that one too. He won Sunday, which is great. I’m just saying let’s not anoint him the new QB1 just based on this game. Justin gets a ton of shit, and I’m not saying none of it is justified. Of course he needs to improve in a lot of areas, but some of the criticism seems to forget any of the success he has had, or any of the evidence we’ve seen of his otherworldly athletic talent.
I, for one, am enjoying the reaction of Bears fans to Bagent’s game. Dude throws for 162 yards, with the lowest yards per attempt in the entire NFL this year, and he’s suddenly starting material and should replace their 3rd year starting QB who has a 91+ passer rating this year (yes, I am aware of the massive inconsistency). It’s fun to watch.
As I say, we are starving for a great quarterback. If I count correctly, we’ve had 41 different starting quarterbacks since I started watching the Bears every week in 1992. At the ripe old age of 14. One of the most popular athletes in Chicago has always been whoever the backup QB is for the Bears.
And, up until not too long ago, most of the Bears’ franchise passing records were held by the esteemed Sid Luckman, who retired seventy-three years ago.
Most of Luckman’s records were finally broken by “Smokin’ Jay” Cutler, who started 102 games for the Bears, and was roundly disliked by Bears fans for nearly all of them.
A question discussed on the radio today was, if the Bears had a playoff game tomorrow, what modern era Bears quarterback would you want to start it? It was an uncomfortable conversation. Cutler, Erik Kramer, Kyle Orton, and McMahon were mentioned, and Justin if we’re considering them at their best. The caveats starting getting pretty far afield, that’s how bad it is. When I heard McMahon named, I thought, is that still considered the “modern era”?
Maybe because I’m old, I consider the “modern era” to be either:
- The “Super Bowl era” (1966 and later)
- The “modern passing era,” which starts somewhere between 1978 (when the institution of the “illegal contact” rule opened up the passing game) and the mid '80s (when Bill Walsh’s “West Coast passing offense” began to be adopted by other teams).
Yeah, definitely. I’m sure that’s what was meant. It’s just crazy that 1985 is coming up on 40 years ago. Doesn’t seem very modern anymore. I tried watching my Uncle’s VHS copy of Superbowl 20 once, and it was so grainy and low res it wasn’t really watchable anymore.
You know, in most NFL cities this is an accurate trope. But Chicago is so bereft of QB talent (or even hope) I can count the number of times that we were legitimately pounding the table for the backup in the last 30 years on one hand.
When Cutler was the QB, even at his lowest points, I don’t recall any of our backups getting the cinderella treatment. Caleb Hanie had his one good game, but beforehand no one knew his name. When Trubisky was here we weren’t begging for Chase Daniel. Erik Kramer and Jim Miller weren’t getting challenged by Steve Stenstrom. Nobody wanted Peter Tom Willis replacing Harbaugh.
Pretty much the only recent example I can think of was when we were bouncing back and forth between Orton and Grossman. Maybe during the Cade Mcnown years people wanted Shane Matthews. Definitely during the Tomczak/Harbaugh years.
Looking through the Bears QB history in my lifetime, you are correct about that. The Rex is our QB/Kyle Orton debate is the one I remember as well from my time watching the team. Also, what a bad idea to look through the list of Bears QBs. Jimmy Clausen, anyone? Shudder
Jimmy Pickles is in the top half of Bears QBs over the last 30 years when you factor in backups. Let that soak in.
Ouch.
Wait, “let that soak in”, is that a pickling joke? haha
My take on that was Fields getting sacked on the first play shook him up, right back into all his bad habits – dropping his eyes, taking off if his first option was covered, etc. He immediately looked like the Fields of games 1-3, not the Fields who shredded Denver and Washington.
A franchise QB just can’t be that mentally fragile.
It’s also arguable whether, on that first play, he should have recognized the unblocked rusher and checked to a different play or blocking scheme. But the line shares the fault on that, too.
I was up until the wee hours last night watching the Bagent All-22 analysis on YouTube/Twitch. All the usual suspects were effusive in their praise of Bagent, seems like these QB know-it-alls and former NFL QBs all are seeing a guy playing way, way over expectations.
The thing that stood out like a fucking lighthouse spotlight was the speed at a which he delivered the ball. Dude’s release is lightning quick, like Kurt Warner. And I don’t mean speed from snap to throw, I mean from when he decides to throw and when the ball’s out. There’s no wind up, he doesn’t need to gather his feet, he’s not bouncing around, when he sees the opportunity, the ball is on its way before you can blink. This really showed up on smoke screens, he catches the snap and has the ball in the WRs hands before the defense is even out of its backpedal. He puts it in the perfect catching position, he doesn’t bother to get the laces or set his feet, when he needs to be fast, he just flicks the wrist an gets it there. This is a night and day difference compared to Fields.
That’s all well and good, but I need Fields back in the lineup so that DJ Moore can resume being a fantasy stud for me in the dynasty league.
Priorities, people!
Honestly, you sound like a disturbingly large subset of the modern professional football fanbase.