Poll: You're watching a play; would you rather hear about past events or see them?

Cafe Society
1

I don’t have high hopes for participation in this one, but c’est la vie.

I have written large chunks of a play. I could finish it except I can’t decide which of two formats works better. For the OP I’ll ask a relatively brief question; for those interested in more detail I’ll include it in the first post.

Question:

You are watching a play. It is set in 1882. The two main characters have been married for almost 40 years and it has been a very turbulent marriage that involves front-row seats to some major historical events. They are entertaining a young foreign visitor. During the course of the evening the woman, a more than social drinker and desperately lonely, begins to discuss various events of her past: her courtship, the miserable early years of her marriage, the halcyon years of her marriage, the nightmare years, and the PTSD years. (There is, hopefully, a comedic element as well as melodramatic.)
Later a servant who has been in her employ off and on for a generation also tells the visitor, in private, some of his own memories, including a couple of memories that conflict with or add a key element to his mistress’s.

Would you rather:

A: Learn of the couple’s past (and the servant’s perspective) conversationally (through characters talking to the young visitor)

B: See the events discussed enacted via vignettes with younger actors playing the same characters- and other actors playing characters very important in their lives but long dead before the events of the play- on other parts of the stage

I can think of examples of A that did and did not work. Perhaps my gold standard of success in this style of play would be The Lion in Winter: you learn about them only conversationally: their courtship, her marriage to the King of France, their original heir “The Young King” who died, Henry’s infidelities, Eleanor’s imprisonment, etc…

Flashbacks occur far more in movies than in plays, but there are certainly some precedents. Death of a Salesman has flashback scenes, the far more surreal Invention of Love by Stoppard has fluid time, and there are others. (If you can think of any plays that do really great jobs with flashbacks to other eras please let me know).

Thanks for any input beyond TLDR-

2

A. Conversationally allow for a much more natural flow.
Flashbacks in plays are almost always clunky.

3

Depends…is the bulk of the play about what happened in the past? Or does most of the drama happen in the present, with only bits of the past necessary to understand what’s going on?

If the former, flashbacks. For the latter, dialogue.
ETA: Congratulations on having written (most of) a play! :slight_smile:

4

The working title of the play is Beautiful View and it is set at Beauvoir, the home of Jefferson Davis and his family, in Biloxi, Mississippi in summer 1882.

Jefferson Davis, his best and his worst days far behind him, and his [second] wife Varina are hosting the 27 year old V.I.P. visitor to America Oscar Wilde, a man who has said repeatedly during his tour of the states that Davis is the man he most wants to meet. Varina is absolutely thrilled: she is a voracious reader, a very cultured and sophisticated woman whose salons were once the most popular in Washington, D.C., and who loved her years in Europe (even though she was a penniless expatriate most of her time there) far more than she ever loved her native state, and yet for the past several years she’s lived in a relatively comfortable but completely isolated and lonely exile in “TransMississippi Gaul” listening to her husband and his few friends and supporters continually refighting the Civil War (a war she was very much opposed to and clear headed enough to see the South could never win before it ever started [that’s documented, incidentally]) and this is offering a rare evening to discuss something unrelated to the war and literary and artistic topics she used to so love.

Jefferson could not care less about the visitor’s credentials, doesn’t really have any clue why the man is coming or what he’s famous for (something he shares with many other Americans- Wilde at this point is essentially famous for being famous- he’s touring America lecturing on Aesthetics, particularly home decoration and the visual arts) and dislikes him before he ever meets him for a variety of reasons (not least of which is he disliked Wilde’s uncle, a rich Louisiana planter before the war) and because of some bad experiences Davis had in Dublin and his disdain for Europeans in general. But for his wife’s sake he does agree to host Wilde. Davis is obsessed with reviving Brierfield, a cotton plantation that has just been restored to him, and with his memoirs, which Wilde is surprised that Davis is offended when he refers to them (as Wilde did) as a “masterpiece”.

Robert is the Davis’s servant, previously their slave. He has left their employ a couple of times since the war but he always comes back, and he knows where all the bodies are buried. He has a great love for Varina and her daughter, and though he curses him frequently behind his back and (less vehemently) to his face he has more respect for Jefferson Davis than he’d admit openly. He has been with the family through the worst of their troubles and they have become fused together; he and Mr./Mrs. Davis all know and all take advantage of the fact that they will never really be free of each other. (Robert is closely based on an actual person in case you’re interested.)

Wilde arrives, flamboyantly of course. He primarily wants to talk about the war, which of course disgusts Varina (though she remains a perfect hostess). Jefferson is a total horse’s ass, especially when Wilde- in trying to be funny and light- mentions how his mother used to dress him as a girl and makes an unknowing faux pas to Davis about how rumors of one dressing in women’s clothing can be a bad thing. Daughter Winnie (whose 18th birthday this is- a historical fact incidentally) is enthralled and of course crushing on Wilde, and Varina and even Robert enjoy his company, especially after it’s clear that he’s the one human being on Earth Jefferson does not want to discuss the Civil War with. The Davis’s and Wilde retire from the drawing room to have dinner (and scene).

After dinner Davis makes an excuse to leave, and takes daughter Winnie with him very much against her will. (The Widows of the Confederacy are planning a surprise birthday for her- she is after all their “Daughter of the Confederacy”.) Varina and Wilde are left alone at Beauvoir. Varina, a more than social drinker- although discreetly- has become inebriated- Wilde is drinking far more but isn’t- and she becomes garrulous. Wilde becomes very intrigued with some of the snippets she’s letting drop and encourages her to talk about her past, and she does.

I’ll leave it there for now but I will say that much of the play involves themes of family dynamics under fire, family loyalty, and Southern culture. Major themes include the roles of women/wives in Victorian culture, the origins of the “Lost Cause” romanticism of the war (it didn’t start for years after the war), the isolation and self-imposed provincialism of southern culture, classism, and the complexity of southern society before and after the Civil War, and of course- as with The Lion in Winter- the human element of history.

5

Could you have the flashbacks conversationally, and have other actors off to the side silently acting out the descriptions? I’m thinking the main actor talks and a spotlight shines on the far side of the stage to show the flashback actors. Then the next flashback on the other side. Then alternate again if there’s three flashbacks.

6

The action could go either way, but currently it’s mostly set in or concerned with the events pre-1882. Perhaps strangely considering the subjects one of the few areas I don’t want vignettes for is the Civil War itself, though the events of Davis’s capture (far more than just the dress rumor*) are a major part of the story.

*The story about Davis wearing a dress when he was captured is false, but the story that he was disguised as a woman is a grayer issue. An argument could be made that he was, but it was his wife’s doing, and he never really forgave her for the humiliation it caused him.

7

In The Lion In Winter, you wanted to keep your eyes on the action to see if mom, dad or the boys would kill each other, and your ears tuned in to the great lines being thrown around. All the expository information is just to lend motive, and flashbacks would only distract. “Oh good, a flashback. I need to take a piss anyway.”

But if you don’t have an intense conflict like that, and flashbacks would add dimension to the characters (especially a character-driven story), do indeed add them. I’ve always been a sucker for comic flashbacks that are pantomimed while the present-day actors are narrating them, especially when another present-day actor interrupts “wait - that’s not how it happened,” and the pantomimes silently act out “well make up your mind!”

It’s called a play, not a tell.

8

The main reason I do want to have vignettes is that there are three great characters I’d love to add in, all of whom were long dead by 1882:

-Joseph E. Davis, Jefferson’s older (by almost a quarter century) brother and his father figure, a self-made millionaire who forged a huge plantation in Mississippi and on it attempted to create a utopian community (with, shall we say, not total success). Varina, whose marriage to Jefferson he orchestrated, initially saw him as a kindly avuncular/almost grandfatherly figure (he was in his 40s when she was born and had been a good friend of her parents) when she was a girl living in genteel poverty and he was the rich family friend coming around with gifts. Later she hated him so much that she almost separated from Jefferson (again- not the first or second time) because he named their 4th child after Joseph without her consent. Still later, after the war, she regarded him with enormous respect- and also hatred and fondness. (Joe Davis was a brilliant man by any standards who wanted Jefferson to be President of the U.S., and had it not been for the Civil War he very possibly would have been; Joe himself couldn’t really hope to enter politics due to a few skeletons in his closet, not least of which being some duels and the fact he had nine known children, none of them with his wife [who he married when he was in his 40s and she was 16]).

-Jane Appleton Pierce- wife of 14th president Franklin Pierce and one of Varina’s dearest friends. She handpicked Varina to be her surrogate as First Lady, thus Varina hosted many White House gatherings, and the Pierces remained loyal friends even after Fort Sumter. Jane was dead by the end of the war but Franklin actually visited Jefferson in prison and attempted to get Varina and the children to move into his mansion in New Hampshire, even volunteering to rent a place for himself so that there wouldn’t be talk.
What makes her a really interesting character for a drama is that she should be a very eccentric and sad character: long before she was First Lady she already had anxiety problems. She began most mornings while First Lady by writing letters to her sons, particularly her youngest son, all of whom were dead. (She only allowed Franklin to run for president because she thought it would open doors for their only surviving child, and that child was killed in a train accident- that his parents witnessed- between the election and the inauguration.) Her husband was increasingly dependant on alcohol and drugs- while president he killed a pedestrian while driving his carriage drunk and he eventually died of cirrhosis. She wore black mourning garb for the last two decades of her life and she suffered from constant ill health.
HOWEVER, while she has all the makings of a depressing character, she wasn’t. She had a really sly sense of humor, even a bit catty, when in private with her close friends (which Varina was), she loved to gossip and to use the (largely phony) competetive pity the ladies of D.C. had for her against them, and when health allowed she loved leaving the city and going horseback riding with friends (including Varina). They had a bond from the moment they met, and one of my favorite scenes I’ve written is their meeting (when, as in fact, Varina had to bring her baby to the White House and tried to hide it from Mrs. Pierce fearing it would upset her- far from, she loved children and said something to the effect of a place filled with nothing but politicians and their wives and no children sounded like a description of Hell to her.

-Sarah Ellis Dorsey- Varina’s schoolmate in boarding school as a child- she hated her (largely envy due to Sarah’s family being stinking rich and Varina’s being broke [she got expelled from boarding school due to non-payment of tuition]). After the war she became Jefferson’s patroness, collaborator, friend, and possibly mistress while Varina was in Liverpool pleading “too ill to come home” (in reality she didn’t want to come back due to Depression and being basically ‘out of love’ with Jefferson due largely to his indiscretions with the wife of his former prison mate [oddly Davis doesn’t seem to have been unfaithful- at least not indiscreetly so- until he was in his 60s/70s, but then he had about three well documented indiscretions). Sarah Ellis Dorsey is in many ways the mother of “Lost Cause” romanticism, which Varina openly endorsed but privately called a bunch of nonsense, and Varina hated her, wrote scathing letters that survive to Jefferson about his relationship with her, and ended up becoming very close friends with until Sarah’s death, and all of this happened in the span of less than 18 months.

9

I guess I have a slight preference for dialogue, but it depends on how it’s done and the amount of exposition involved. Mostly, I just wanted to post to say that I would SO TOTALLY want to see this play, however it was handled :slight_smile:

10

It depends on the skill of the playwright. I agree that flashbacks are difficult to to in theater, but that just means you need to do a better job of writing them.

However, maybe your desire to add those characters will only screw up the play. You have to concentrate on the drama and not try to introduce characters from history simply because you want to. Are they relevant to what’s happening on stage?

11

It depends.

For example, I recently watched a musical called “Forever Young” (warning: video, music and link will eventually expire), set in an old folks’ home. The actors are young (the one playing the 50sh nurse is probably the oldest one, and if she’s actually 50 I want her doctor’s number), but except for the nurse they play people in their 80s and 90s. A lot of the play is about their memories, but part of the strength of the story comes from watching these geriatrics bang it on… it wouldn’t be either half as fun or half as poignant to see a young couple making out as watching two oldsters dealing with their physical difficulties.

The one I saw right before that (Los Golden en blanco y negro; no music directly I think) was sort of the opposite: they would introduce each scene by using letters between the different characters, so that the actors would have time to change into appropriate clothing in order to play what their letters told about. Scenography got changed discreetely while the spotlight made everything else dark by contrast; occasionally, it got changed indiscreetely by making the change itself part of the scene.

Both can work, it’s one of those “in the execution” things. For a movie I’d expect it to be changes of actors (or actors playing the same character in both instances), for the theater I think you need to avoid having so much exposition that it feels like every paragraph is Hamlet’s monologue, but that may mean having a second set of actors or it may mean talking less about those parts; maybe referring to them rather than telling the whole story.

12

This was my first thought. The problem is that it’s sort of all-or-nothing. If it’s executed very well, it think it would be an excellent approach. Short of that, though, I imagine it would be very distracting and confusing. It’s also more work for everyone, and requires more writing. If you take this approach, I suggest including a flashback cue in the lighting direction–maybe light color-filters on the spots. Just enough to suggest that the characters in the vignettes aren’t actually there.

The way I picture it, the whole thing has a sort of dreamy quality, or an edge of delirium. Two characters in isolation, one not quite in control of her faculties and the other rapt in eccentric fascination, surrounded by the ghosts of the past.

13

For this premise, I’d go with the told version. If it wasn’t historical events, then maybe I’d prefer the flashback. But with historical events, a play version is generally going to look cheesy. The only way you could do it is to flash back without any visuals showing what’s happening, and just the younger actors reacting.

In fact, with that last idea, maybe I should change my vote. The minimal set dressing of the vignettes as I described sounds very much like every good provocative, dreamlike play I’ve ever seen.

14

I pretty much hate flashbacks in any form - theater or film or television.
In real life, you are told what happened back then. If you have a strong character, they can put you right into the scene and make you feel like you were really there.
I can remember great stories from my grandmother about when she was a little girl in Italy. Whether or not they were 100% true, or slightly embellished, was irrelevant - that became the family lore and the way grandma would tell it was fascinating.

It is far easier to be more detailed when a character tells what happened - they can describe the weather that day, the grand gowns the women were wearing, the smells from the kitchen, the glow of the fireplace and the hushed tones of the men folk discussing the issue at hand. You would never accomplish that on-stage without a huge budget.

One other approach, however, might be to have Scene One be with a younger cast and showing what really happened, and Scene Two showing the more recent past with memories of that time (or flip the order of the scenes to show what really happened after you heard the version of how people remember it).

Still, I think it is always better to keep things in the here and now, and let your characters bring those historical memories to life.

15

Have them appear as ghosts while the other characters decribe them and stylistically interact with them, i.e. Varina and Jefferson cite anectodes about their long-dead friends to Wilde, but instead of “…and then I said blah, and she said blah…”, act it out.

Just a suggestion. Artsy, I ain’t.