Polyamory/open marriage questions [Formerly, "What Exit's polyamory question..."]

**jayjay **and Rhiannon04, thanks so much for sharing the way things work for you. Suburban Plankton, are you one of Rhiannon04’s partners? I’d love to hear your take on things, as well, if we can cajole you into sharing.

I’ve answered Heffalump and Roo’s questions in other posts, but I’m going to go ahead and answer them all again. It intrigues me to watch how I and others change as time goes on, so I will disclaim that these answers are true for right now. They may vary from answers I’ve given to the same questions in the past. So be it. One of the things this marriage model has taught me is that it’s important to communicate where I am right now, in the moment, not to stick to answers I gave before - if I’m feeling threatened now, I have to say it, even if 2 hours ago I reassured everyone I was fine. OTOH, this might be a whole lot of repeatin’ if y’all read one of the previous poly threads, and I apologize for that. But H&R deserves just as complete and currently honest an answer as those old posters got, so I won’t simply link to an old thread.

And, of course, these answers are only for one particular open marriage - mine. Different people have very different answers, even to the simple logistical questions.

The married part or the open part? (I’m not being snarky - a very common question is, “So why get married, then?”) The married part brings the same benefits I assume most marriages do - I have a partner in life. We’re raising kids together, we like spending a lot of time together in shared interests. We help each other grow as people. When I met him, I knew he was “the one” in terms of being a person I want in my life forever in a primary way. We love each other a lot, we just don’t love each other exclusively.

The open part has what I would consider obvious benefits: relationships with other people that don’t cost me my marriage. Most of my relationships stem from friendships that grow closer and closer until we realize there’s something “more”. I can pursue that passion without being afraid of losing the person I want in my life forever. That’s a huge benefit for me. A side benefit is that I don’t have to worry about my husband misinterpreting *innocent *actions - I can give a male friend a backrub or hang my arm around his shoulders and my husband isn’t tortured, wondering if something is going on. If something is going on, I’ll let him know (or he can ask.)

Most of ours have been fairly short term, but not by design. By short term, I mean around the 4-6 month mark, not one-night stands. I know other people who have been involved for years, but I’m sorry to say I haven’t found someone like that. OTOH, I tend to get involved with friends who strong feelings develop for, and have maintained all those friendships, but the sexual part of the relationships haven’t lasted as long as I’d like sometimes.

I never been so tempted, but my husband was once. Our first year together, when we were still dating, my husband met one woman he considered leaving for. It was almost a Jungian archetypal experience for him - I represented stability and family life and urban “normal” living - she was a free spirit earth mama hippie who lived in a log cabin in a nature sanctuary with no running water or electricity. He says he wasn’t so much choosing between two women as between two ways of life. Eventually he introduced the two of us when she came to town. I was nervous as hell, but we got along great. Somewhere in the evening she just sat back and watched us for a while, and then smiled and told us how beautiful we were as people and as a couple. He and I looked at each other and smiled, and all that nervousness just melted away. I knew he was “mine” as much as another human ever could be. That was the last time I felt threatened by another woman around him.

For me, they are primarily emotional, or at least, they derive from an emotional connection. That was how it was when I was single and dating too.

I share your concerns, especially with the not-really-Mormon situations with child brides or family pressure to marry. I don’t condone any of that sort of nonsense. I’m not sure what sort of “safeguards” could be put in place, formally or informally. If I sense that a supposedly “open” relationship is happening under duress, I won’t get involved with either member of the relationship, and I counsel my husband to do the same. He’s not so good at recognizing it, but he’s starting to learn to just trust my read and walk away. (See above re: he’s a magnet for damaged goods and loonies.)

I’m going to steal Rhiannon04’s answer: “I can only speak for myself and my husband, but the times in our [8] year marriage that he and I have been closest, the times that our marriage have been at its best, are the times that I have been involved in a secondary relationship. Somehow, it takes the pressure off of my husband in some areas and we can really enjoy each other.”

This has occasionally come up for us, mostly when my husband’s juggling someone else. There’s no drama around it, I simply quietly say, “I’m feeling overwhelmed with the house and kids and I need your help this weekend doing XYZ. Please consider staying home.” And he does. Usually he hasn’t even noticed he’s been absent so much and is very apologetic about it. I would never forbid him to go out, I can’t imagine our marriage would be in a good place if it came to that! I simply tell him what’s up for me and he tells me what’s up for him and we work out a solution that works for both of us. When he shares what’s up with me, I don’t always insist he stay home: he spent a lot of time with one of his girlfriends as her mother was dying. When he told me that was the reason, my irritation just went away and I was encouraging him to spend more time with her, instead!

Just a note for context: yes, my husband does have lots more other partners than I do. I’m just not as interested in it to make the time for it. I really like my kids and my house and this is where my focus is. He dated a lot more than I did while we were single, too, so this is nothing new. I don’t feel “cheated” or feel like we need to have “equal” partners or anything.

As** Ferret Herder** says, plenty of people find the time for extra-marital affairs. For us, it tends to be weekend and vacation oriented. We camp a lot at pagan campgrounds and festivals, and I’m always open to some stud catching my eye around a campfire. Never happened for me, but I’m open to it. :wink: Like I said, I tend to be that girl who falls for her friends, which is a nice way of hanging out with your friends and your love at the same time. :smiley:

If I was to have another partner right now, what would get trimmed is my time on the Dope. I spend a LOT of time on here, and that’s a non-essential that would be easy to reduce to gain time to spend with another person.

OH! And an update for oldtimers: I finally told my son outright that we have an open marriage. He got to 14 without asking, and someone made some comment in front of him that went right over his head, but convinced me it was time to have The Talk. So while we packed the car for camping last weekend, I told him. He was cool as a cuke, that kid. It helped, I think, that we were going to a campground with several polyfamilies, and I told him to feel free to talk or rant to anyone he liked about it, and named some kids who have poly folks so he doesn’t feel weird or alone. I also shared with him my shock of learning about my own parent’s open marriage from a stranger, and told him I wanted to spare him that.

I have no questions, but I just wanted to say that I enjoy these threads when they come up. I’ve been in a poly relationship before, but never tried one since then, mostly because I can’t even find one person to date, let alone more than one.

I love WhyNot’s threads into the forbidden land of polyamory. Question: If you or your husband find yourself falling for someone in a “big” way, do you have an understanding that you’d go with it and see where it takes you or to you hit the brakes?

We’ve talked about it in theory, and yes, the current idea is that we’d go with it and see where it takes us. Neither of us is opposed to a long-term partner, or even bringing a third adult into our family, we just haven’t found the right person, and we’re not seeking real actively. If it happens, we’ll figure it out.

Why? Interested? :wink: :smiley:

I’ve been aware of polyamory for a long time, and ran into some fine poly folk at the International Pagan Spirit Gathering back in the mid nineties.

However, romantic relationship of any sort is extremely difficult for me, and I haven’t had much experience with it. Given the stresses and anguishes I’ve heard of (jealousy,loneliness, etc), it seems that for many people, the poly life would be healthier than forcing themselves onto the monogamous way. On the other hand, I have heard that the monogamous way, if truly accepted by both partners, offers rewards no other way can.

My question… is polyamorous relationship easier than monogamous?

It seems that instead of having one other person on whom one piles all sorts of hopes and fears and dreams and reponsibilities, there would be several to share the load. On the other hand, there would be greater complexities of communication and arrangement. On the third hand, people who grow up with more than one sibling seem to handle it fine, so why not more than one spouse?

My answer for me is: heck yeah, it’s easier! Otherwise I wouldn’t be doing it. Like you say, it takes a lot of the pressure off. The idea that I’m expected to be the one-and-only for every emotional, financial, physical and sexual need my husband will ever need in the next 70 years, and he for me, no matter what either of us is going through individually at the time, is just so much pressure. Not the big life and death things - the big things I’m happy to take care of. But, just as a petty example: concerts. He loves friggin’ concerts and with a few exceptions, I hate them. I’d rather listen to the music I like on a decent sound system than get all dressed up in uncomfortable shoes to go stand with a crowd of sweaty strangers, get my ears numb from terrible sounding music from a shitty soundsystem, and still be so far back from the stage I can’t see anything anyway. But ooh! I can watch it all happen on the Jumbotron! Right, I’d rather stay home and watch concert videos, thanks. OTOH, he’s got several friends, romantic and otherwise, who LOVE concerts. Yay and yippee says I. Let them deal with it and keep him happy!

On the sexual front, I do suffer from an awfully low libido, unfortunately. I’m more than happy for him to get his sexual needs met by a willing partner, and then have him come home and snuggle with me. And vice-versa - I’m about 75 pounds over what he considers sexually attractive at the moment, but there are people out there who still find me sexy - so he’s not pressured to flatter me insincerely, I get my emotional need for body acceptance met by two of my friends-bordering-on-more at the moment. I’m trying to lose weight, and I do hope that we will be more sexually compatible soon (“they” tell me libido generally rises with weight loss, so that’s a bonus), but at this moment, those needs are better met by other people, y’know?

Is it easier for everyone? Hell, no. And the most often reason I’ve seen for it being “hard”? People not being honest with themselves and their partners with where they’re at RIGHT NOW. People who think that they’ve trapped themselves into agreeing forever because they agreed last week. When (if) something bugs you, you’ve got to make it known, even if you “promised you wouldn’t get jealous.” (Stupid promise, in my book. Never promise what you’ll feel in the future - you have no way of making good on it.)

WhyNot, are you and your husband both primarily heterosexual, or is bisexuality part of the polyamory?

Hey, Sunspace! Shout-out for PSG! My husband and I haven’t been able to make it for the last two years and we are missing it badly.

We’re both primarily hetero. I’m a *little *more bi than he is - he’s kissed a guy once during group play, I’ve had sex with two women, but always with a man present, and am currently considering a third (who’s got a poly lifemate, male, who I’m interested in as well). But I’m generally attracted to men, and have many more male notches on my bedpost than female. :wink:

Oh, I wanna go to PSG! I’ve never been, and I hear it’s great. But I fear it’s not in the funds for this year. Again. sigh

I’ve been away from paganity for a while, but I’ve been kind of missing it, and I kinda want to venture back.

Heh-heh…Wouldn’t that be a Doper First! :cool:

I just wanted to stop back and thank WhyNot for giving a thorough explanation to me despite having given it many times before. And thanks again to Rhiannon04 for her thorough information as well.

I think I’ve gotten enough information to realize that I don’t have sufficient self-esteem or perhaps sufficient life experience to be able to entertain this type of lifestyle. And since I’m sure no one is interested in what I think about a lifestyle in which I’m not participating, I’ll leave it at that.

This is probably the thing I have the most trouble understanding about an arrangement like yours. My husband and I both work full-time and we have the 2 kids. We are SO busy, that we hardly have any recreational time to spend together, and more importantly, with the kids. Do you ever worry that your husband’s extracurricular activities will damage the relationship he has with your children, simply because he isn’t there often enough?

You have an “awfully” low libido, your husband finds you sexually unattractive and he has more “dates” than you do?
Have you been sexually abused?

I have a question. The “poly” people who have replied to this thread obviously don’t consider marriage to be a bar to extra-marital sexual or deep emotional activity. But that can viewed as threatening to those of us for whom an essential component of marriage is sexual fidelity. IOW, why should I trust you to respect that component of MY marriage and not pursue a relationship with my (completely hypothetical) husband, when you don’t consider it important in your own marriage?

So my question(s) is/are this: When you consider partners for sexual and emotional closeness, do you draw a distinction between people who are having multiple relationships with their primary partner’s knowledge and consent, and people who are doing it on the down-low (cheating)? Do you consider that to be their problem and NOYB, because you have no obligation to worry about the other person’s spouse or the state of their marriage? Or do you think that you should only be in a relationship with a person if they have “permission” from their primary to do it? And how do you know if they do or they don’t?

To tell you where I’m coming from: I am very much a traditionalist for whom sexual and deep emotional fidelity is central to marriage, for both religious and personal reasons. I would NOT be okay with anything approaching an open marriage for myself, and I would hope and expect that people would respect the fact of my marriage – that my husband, wearing his ring, would be to “off limits” to other women because he was married. Obviously I would expect him to be of the same mind and I understand that responsibility for his actions is completely on him, but I would still hope other people would not treat him as fair game for flirtation, tempation, or possibly more. I am completely respectful of other people’s marriages and would expect others to be the same of mine.

But I would question whether I could expect – indeed, if it’s even reasonable to expect – that degree of deference to the married state from people who don’t operate under the same definition of “married” that I do. So I am very curious as to how you conduct your relationships in a culture that, ostensibly at least, disapproves of them – where many of your potential partners may in turn have partners who are not at all okay with such an arrangement.

Thanks!

Answering for myself here. I would NEVER get in the way of someone elses relationship. This was more of an issue when I was single. I’m not currently in an open relationship, but we’ve talked about the possibility.

I believe firmly in the…for lack of a better term at the moment…sanctity of a relationship, whether it be open or monogamous. I have been with couples before, or with one part of a couple but I knew that both were ok with it. Only once (that I know of) did I sleep with a married man who was cheating. Of course, he didn’t tell me that beforehand. The whole situation made me physically ill.

All that to say, I would consider myself a lesser person for enabling someone else to cheat on their partner.

I can’t speak for everyone involved in a poly arrangement, of course, but I can tell you this: the rule I’ve heard and seen practiced by everyone involved in this lifestyle is: don’t break a marriage.

My wife has my full permission to seek out any playmate she wants. If she was interested in your husband, the first thing – before ANYTHING else happened! – would be to determine if your marriage would allow extra-marital activity. And those of us who have been around the block a few times know how to find this out withOUT taking their word at face value. (“Aw, my wife’s okay with it, trrrussst mee…” Yaright.)

I’m sure there are poly people out there who live a let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may lifestyle, but I think they’re in the minority. Most mature polys do NOT want to mess up another person’s life. We’ve quite enough experience with OTHER folks trying to mess up ours; we don’t want to make it worse! :slight_smile:

Hey there, it’s actually me this time, as **Rhiannon8404 **has finally got her subscription worked out.

I am not one of her partners; I am her husband. And I am perfectly willing to share, no cajoling needed. In fact, I started typing out a very long post way back on Monday morning, and still haven’t had an opportunity to finish it. Things have been a bit busy and stressful and altogether maddening over the past couple of days. More on that later, when I get a chance to finish my post. I just wanted to drop in here to clarify my identity and let you know that I’ll be back.

And I have a question for WhyNot. You talked about your son, and telling him about your situation. We have a son who will be turning 9 in a couple of months. At this point, I don’t think he knows that anything is “going on”, but I’m fairly certain that he will figure “something” out at some point, probably before we figure out what to tell him ourselves. Can you offer any thoughts on the subject?

Thanks,

SP

Speaking for myself and my wife, in our poly relationship, we are adamant that we don’t enable cheaters if we can help it, and in point of fact we prefer to as much as possible find playmates who are also married and interested in both of us. I have always felt that, us being so nontraditional, that if we want you to respect OUR marriage vows (that allow us to be free to do what we want with others, within limits) without calling us adulterous and worse, then we need to respect YOUR marriage vows, whatever you put in 'em–and that includes your monogamy.

In response to something earlier, we’re very close with a couple with small children, and we tend to rotate babysitting duties around. With two working husbands and two stay-at-home moms, the incremental time sink of each kid becomes MUCH more manageable–it’s turning into a hidden benefit of polyamory.

Of course, not every poly couple is lucky enough to find another poly couple within walking distance of their suburban house.

Hey, no prob. Like I said, I’m not out to recruit. The gays have the good toasters, anyway. :stuck_out_tongue:

One thing that’s easy to do is to overestimate the amount of fun other people are having. Because this thread is about polyamory, I’m talking a lot about it. In real life, it’s a very small part of our lives. That is, we’re neither of us out every night, or even every week. We spend more time with our kids together than most “traditional” families who have golf games and work meetings and travel and PTA meetings and all those other things that suck your time away. My husband is home right now - in the other room, writing, while the toddler is playing next to him. Neither of us work full-time (hence our money worries) because lots of family time is important to us. If I were to break our “dates” with other people down into actual numbers, I’d say one or the other of us is probably out of the house in the evening after the toddler is in bed about four or five nights a month. She doesn’t even knew someone’s missing, and the 14 year old relishes the extra time on him XBOX, I think. :wink: This limited time, of course, also answers why neither of us has formed a profound or long-term relationship with someone else - we don’t devote the time and energy to it to make it manifest.

I’ll go ahead and answer our footwear friend here anyway, since it’s a matter of Doper record: yes, I was raped by my brother as a kid. Yes, that could theoretically have to do with some of my libido issues, although my therapist doesn’t think it likely at this point. I think the libido is more tied into my weight and my own unhappiness with it. No, I don’t think it is why I accepted polyamory as acceptable to me.

Because I’m polyamorous, I’m not an asshole.

Really, think about your question. If you’re a Christian, how can I trust that you’re not going to convert my children? If you’re a yuppie, how can I trust that you’re not going to ply my husband with unwanted financial advice? If you’re a vegan, how can I trust that you’re not going to slip soy milk into my coffee? I’m perfectly capable of understanding that other relationships have other rules, and of respecting ALL the boundaries of everyone involved.

If you have problems with your hypothetical husband’s fidelity, you have problems with your hypothetical husband. I will not and have never pursued a married man without clear verbal permission from his wife. (I did, once, sleep with a man who lied in his pursuit of me. I think we all do that once before we learn not to trust a horny person who says his/her spouse will understand. After that, we learn to go to the spouse first.) To do otherwise is just being a shitstain of a human being. I probably have less tolerance for cheating than you do, since I think there are perfectly honorable ways to have sex without someone else without cheating. And by “cheating”, I mean “breaking the implicit or stated rules of a relationship” - it’s perfectly possible and logical for a poly person to cheat, it just looks a little different than in a monogamous relationship.

I will say, however, that I think your question is exactly at the heart of most people’s distrust of polyamory, and the reason many theoretically okay with it communities end up imploding - I’ve lost a few friends not because I flirted with their husbands, but because they were afraid I might.

I think the first thing to figure out is how much information in general your son likes to have. Is he the curious george type who just has to know everything and wants to play “what-if?” and know all about every detail of everything you can present to him? Does he get mad if he thinks you know something he doesn’t? Or is he a kid that learns best in pieces, slowly absorbing and digesting one bit before moving onto the next. Is he made anxious by contingency plans because it makes him focus on everything that could go wrong?

The reason I ask is that I think different kids need different amounts of information. A kid who gets mad that he doesn’t know everything is going to be mad if he thinks you’re keeping things from him. A kid that gets overwhelmed by TMI is going to be really icked out by any mention of his parents’ love life.

My son is strongly in the second camp. When he faced major surgery at age 11, he begged me NOT to let the doctor tell him what to expect. He asked that I tell him only what he absolutely needed to know, 'cause all the rest just got him more worried and made him feel sick. So I stuck to things like, “When you wake up, you won’t be able to talk because there will be a tube in your mouth,” and not, “There’s a 10% chance that the doctor might cut a nerve and you’ll need a wheelchair.” Those are extremes, of course, but I think you get the idea.

As a result, I try, with most things in life, to wait until he asks for information. Then I know he’s ready to process it. We’ve never hidden our dates or lied about where we’re going with whom. He knows when Dad is going out with “his friend Rebecca”, and when Mom takes an afternoon walk in the woods with Steve. He also knows that Mom knows and Dad knows, so there was never (I hope) a feeling like he had to keep illicit affairs secret. He has several friends in poly families, and he knows his own grandparents live with another couple, so the idea of variance in family make up is not totally foreign to him. When we see cliched love triangles on TV, a common shout-out is, “Another Problem Solved By…Polyamory!” is a silly 50’s advertising voice. My hope was that he’d put two and two together and simply ask me if we were poly someday, at which point I’d say, “Why, yes son, we are! Pass the popcorn.” :smiley:

Well, that didn’t exactly happen and now he’s 14 and people are started to not censor themselves around him and a few weeks ago, a friend asked my husband if his recent night out was “a date or just hanging out,” in front of the kid. It was one of those awkward moments until the kid said, “Hey, if you have a wife, it’s not a date!” and my internal meter went, “Uh-oh.” So I decided it was time to bite the bullet and be a little more proactive.

I decided that loading the car for camping was a good time, since we’d have the work to focus on and could avoid eye contact if that made him more comfortable, y’know? I’ve found other good times for Big Talks with kids are while driving and while playing video games, for the same reason. I just said something like, “Look, I want to let you know that your dad and I have an open marriage, just like ____ and _____ do. That means we have sometimes have relationships with other people, but our focus is always on each other and you kids. I wanted to let you know before someone else tells you - my parents didn’t and I found out from one of my dad’s girlfriends, and that was rather awkward. I also don’t want you thinking that we’re cheating or anything like that. Y’know, the campground has a few poly families: _____, ______, and ______'s folks are all poly. So if you want to talk to anyone, besides me, of course, they would be a good place to start and not make you feel weird about it.”

He just sort of nodded and kept packing. Didn’t really miss a beat.

So, yeah, upshot of all that: be honest, but don’t offer him an encyclopedia if he’s asking for a Reader’s Digest.

Got it. Your earlier post made it sound as though your husband is out of the house an awful lot.