Quick, someone help me with the telephone pole stuck in lynn’s eye! And several of you do be diligent fishing that mote out of Poly’s. That should teach him to try and help lynn by himself…
lynn73, you seem to hurt as much as anyone I’ve met at SD. I see so much potential in you, but you seem to have negative feelings about everyone including yourself. Where is the joy? Where is the love? It gets lost in a flood of hostility that is directed at you and that comes from you in judgment of others and in defense of yourself.
Can we just look at your post to see it for how it comes across to at least one other Christian (me)?
Sarcasm and hostility. You don’t mean it, do you?
That implies that something should have changed. Consider being the change that you want to see. But you really are judging us when you say something like that. You can’t know what changes have gone on within our lives.
You are absolutely right that you can post as you choose!
If you release your need to control others, you can tolerate Polycarp’s right to post as he chooses and to believe what he chooses also. If it troubles you, then turn it over to the Master. All things work together for the good.
And you also admit your own imperfection. Work on that. Speak of your own beliefs, of course, but you can do that without attacking the beliefs of others. It requires humility.
Lynn73, would it surprise you to know that some Christians here have believed for a long time that you have departed from the true faith and that your mind and heart have been seduced by doctrines that are not about the love, joy, humility and mercy of the Christian faith?
Although I think you have not seen the falsehoods that have most affected your own life, I understand that you think that you are doing the right thing by scolding. It is too bad that what you have said could not have been phrased with more love and compassion. That causes a lot of resentment and makes your words sound hollow to some. Now I am doing the same to you that you said was right for you to do to Polycarp.
You know the answers to these questions. You are allowed to post what you like as are we. You are not required to like what we post and the reverse is true. What part of that would you change?
Your harsh judgment is making you sad. I have yet to see a post from you that isn’t hostile. For the love of God, Lynn, live the teachings of Jesus. Treat us with kindness, forgiveness and love. Leave the judgment to our God.
I know that and so do some of the others here. And remember that when you judge us, you also don’t know our hearts or where we’re coming from. That’s why Jesus didn’t want us judging each other.
Peace on earth, goodwill toward you especially, Lynn.
Well, here is the thing.
In the Bible,which I believe is the word of God, it is true that God gets all angry and smites people. Now, most of you, my current audience, do not believe in the Bible anyway. So I don’t know why you care. However, since I am assuming that there might be one lone person lurking here who might actually care what I have to say, I’ll go ahead and say it.
God is perfect. He does not do wrong. Therefore, if God smites someone, He does it with righteous anger…and since God is perfect, it was justified.
God’s anger is not like OUR anger. HIS anger is JUST anger. NOT “human and without all the facts” anger.
I don’t personally understand things like this. I will not, I assume, understand these things until I get to heaven. In the meantime, I have to live my life by the precepts I was given in the Bible. And while God sometimes punished people, He certainly never instructed US (christians) to go around “smiting” people. Nor did He instruct us to make judgements on whom should be punished on His behalf. IMHO.
OOPS…I responded to page 16. Sorry.
Man, this thread is moving faster than flood waters on the Nooksack.
My apologies.
Don’t apologize, Scotticher. IMHO I’m not the only one fascinated by this discussion and welcoming the varied views being expressed.
Zoe, nice job of beam-extracting! Although I daresay Lynn will snatch it out of your hand and jam it firmly into place again.
Can anyone cite me a religion, anywhere in the world, that preaches love and doesn’t practice hate at times?
There could only be one if there were no members and the founder had passed away. It’s life. Bring the first aid kit. Isn’t diversity great.
Understand what? Standard-issue circular reasoning such as the above in order to justify your particular beliefs? Nothing difficult to “understand” about that, IMO.
That it makes absolutely no sense whatsover is something else altogether. But believers have been trying to “explain” what they themselves admit can’t be understood since they made up their first “god/s.”
Tell you what, once you get to “heaven” send us back an explanation that makes some sense. That’s one post I’d love to read.
And, Scotti, you’re perfectly entitled to believe precisely this. I particularly like the last paragraph.
But, to present the alternative Christian position, the Episcopal Church believes that the Bible conveys the word of God, and “contains all things necessary for salvation.” Because I’m constantly defending this perspective from people whose faith seems threatened by it, and who cling to the Bible as identical to the word of God, it often is not clear how much I love the Bible and find it worthwhile to study diligently. (That of course does not include you – but it does include people who take much your perspective on the Bible.)
But just as the temptation to someone with my perspective is to downplay the truth of the Bible, the temptation to someone who believes it to be the word of God is to elevate it into the place of God Himself, and become a Bibliolater, wirshipping it rather than Him. Each needs to be guarded against by the people with that perspective.
A wise old woman once said: “If you can’t believe, be kind, if you can’t be kind, be tolerant, if you can’t be tolerant, be quiet.” She didn’t know RedFury though. Or maybe she did and that’s why she left honest out. You make me smile.
It was worth the time to catch up on this thread last night and again this morning. I need to get back to my sewing project, but felt some comments should be made.
Tris - Dawson loves butterflies, too. It’s been amazing how often they come to us now. No butterfly is just a butterfly. Each one is precious. What you had to say was germane to Poly’s position and I quoted it in its entirety because it deserved repeating. Every Christian should firmly hold that in their heart as you have demonstrated that you do, time and time again.
Poly - One of the things that I admire about you is not only the quality of your posts, but your patience and dedication to follow through on discussions. I had a bit of that prior to our walk with Dawson, but it’s lost and have not been able to regain it. You, like Tris, are a wonderful teacher. I have really enjoyed reading your posts in this thread.
vanilla - Oh, alrighty then. 
tomndebb - 
Yeah, but I’m a libertarian and have credentials to back it up.
Zoe - I was so impressed with your post to lynn73. What a wonderful witness it is. I hope she will recognize that and the love in which it was given.
NoClueBoy - I hope your comment to Tris was all in jest. I’ll assume it was. As far as being creeped out by this discussion, I don’t understand why it should. Tris and Poly have both provided insight and reasoning, correctly I believe, which may not be mainstream within most religious teachings by churches, but nonetheless, is not inconsistent in what we have witnessed from God through the ages.
Is it just me or isn’t that rather insulting? I know Catholics get bent out of shape when I say it looks like they worship Mary or one of the Saints. Isn’t calling fundamentalists Bible-worshippers bad f-in’ manners Poly? Oh I know you don’t mean all of them, they just have that tendency.
Thank you, Zoe, for your assesessment and the kindness in which it’s given. I will try to do as you suggest and leave things that disturb me with the Master. I just wanted to share my opinion that I don’t agree with Polycarp on his view of the second coming of Christ and the reason why. No judgment against anyone personally is intended, only opinions about ideas and beliefs that are put forth. I know we’re not suppose to judge people but I find evidence in Scripture that indicates we ARE to judge the truth of falsehood of something. I’m sorry that I can’t seem to do that in a way that’s non offensive to the people here.
It’s not for lack of trying, although some may not agree with that. I realize that everyone is entitled to give their beliefs and opinion regardless of whether they agree with mine. I’m willing to agree to disagree with people.
I didn’t know how else to respond to what I considered to be andros’ nasty comment to me. There may have been sarcasm there but no hostility. Perhaps I should have just let his comment go, he’s entitled to his opinion of me. I’m sorry that you consider what I say to be scolding. I’m simply trying to share why I believe somebody’s opinion of the second coming of Christ is incorrect. No one has to agree with it. I’m sorry that you and others feel the way you do about everything I say. Anyway…
peace on earth and good will to you also.
You haven’t shared shit.
As usual, you’ve popped in with a drive-by to claim that Poly’s beliefs are demonic.
Now you’ve scampered away again without offering anything of any substance, only the assertion that :
Your opinion?
You claim to be a Christian and to know the truth-- but where’s the doctrine in your posts? Where’s the reproof? Where’s the correction?
Just another damn drive-by.
-David
No, dammit.
It’s possible for a Catholic’s devotion to Mary to be so extreme as to eclipse the commitment to her Son that is prescribed by Catholic teaching. That’s a tendency – it does not mean that Mrs. O’Brien or Mr. Mientkiewicz saying the Rosary is actually going to that extreme.
Likewise, inerrantist conservative Protestants are quite entitled to believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God. But the possibility exists that they may focus on “the Bible says…” rather than “God calls us to…” and that’s an extreme that they have to avoid.
The Liberal Christian is properly focused on social justice and the seeing of Christ in others in the daily run of things. But he has to be careful not to let that tendency eclipse the historical truths of the faith.
In all three cases, focus = OK; taking focus to inordinate extreme = bad.
Lynn73
That’s the wonderful thing about forgiveness. It heals the forgiver.
This post, in case it wasn’t clear, was a response to CarnalK – several posts intervened, leaving that unclear.
WELL?
I think its time you answered the OP.
Did you forget to take your pills?
It’s been so long since the OP, he probably can’t even find them any more.
Polycarp:
Straw man argument. I know of no fundamentalist who does this. All that I have met would only say that the bible was god’s word/instructions of how to live and that they worship god, not the bible.
Polycarp:
Don’t bother Lynn. Polycarp talks of discussing specifics but it’s all a farce. Once you get him corned he’ll just broad brush everything and accuse you of nitpicking. Then when you and your allies are having a little fun with him, he’ll cry like a baby that the thread be closed. Just like he did with me:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220165&perpage=40&pagenumber=9