How do women in polygamist societies (one husband, plethora of wives) deal? Do incumbents get jealous when new blood is sought and introduced? How does the sex thing work…I’m assuming it’s not an all out orgy. Is it?
I heard what you NEVER want is to have exactly three wives. Two of them will band together against the third and make the situation cruel and miserable. Any other number is workable.
Seems to be working out okay for Hugh Hefner. Yes, I know they’re not his wives, but they might as well be…
From what I get (no cite, someone will provide one later), the man shares a bed with a different wife on different nights. So there is no outright orgy, and every woman gets her fair turn to be provided for by their husband.
Also, I believe the first wife is considered the ‘senior’ wife (again no cite) and basically keeps tabs on the others.
On a side note, I did see an educational episode of Jerry Springer once where this man had three wives and four kids, and they all shared the same bed. Oh yeah, two of the girls were sisters and one was his cousin. If it is on Springer, it has to be true.
What FMG describes is typical for Mormon fundamentalist polygamists, but I imagine other polygamist societies have other rules.
I wonder what Paul in Saudi has to say about this, if he has observed any of these relationships where he works.
In cases like the Mughals of India, who might have hundreds of concubines, there were usually two or three women who were “favorites” and who the husband spent most of his time with. Harems are actually a lot less exciting than you’d think they would be. I doubt there were many all-out orgies (though there might be lesbian romances developing amongst the harem) and in bigger harems, a random girl might get a roll in the royal bed once in a blue moon, if at all. A ruler might be too busy with war and state craft to get around to his harem very often. Mehmet II the Conqueror, the Turkish sultan, had only eight children despite a plethora of concubines. His son, Bayezit II, who lived a much more sedentary lifestyle, managed 23 children.
No, I don’t have a cite. But I read a book twenty years ago (didn’t we all?) when I was very interested in the space program. If I recall correctly?
One person in space goes crazy alone. Two people fight.
With three people, two gang up on the third.
It’s hard out there for an astronaut. Or a cosmonaut.
heart
Were the Mughals expected to have a huge harem just for status, with women he didn’t even necessarily choose?
Which explains why the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo space programs all ended in bloodbaths.
I recently worked with a 30-ish Iraqi woman whose grandfather had two wives.
I once asked her how the wives handled the availability issue. She replied that they sorta planned around it, not unlike how monogamous couples deal with ‘monthly’ unavailabilities, and other domestic issues, like helping the kids with homework, driving them to soccer practice, etc.
It sounded weird to me, but baseball looked weird to her.
Keep in mind, a harem wasn’t just comprised of scantily-clad sexual partners. The harem was the place of the sultan or Mughal’s women, his wives, concubines, his mother, his unmarried daughters and sisters, and even female prisoners. Friar Monserrate claims Akbar had 300 temporary wives, married for political reasons. The Mughals also married their female relatives, possibly to improve family unity – Jahangir, Babur, and Akbar all married cousins. Shaibani Khan, Babur’s uncle, had two wives, one his niece and the other his aunt! Other times love was the deciding factor. Akbar fell in love with the wife of a court noble, and her husband finally divorced her so that she could move into the harem. Jahangir married a courtesan named Anarkali while he was still a prince. Of course, there’s the famous story of Shah Jahan and Mumtaz.
See Domesticity and Power in the Early Mughal World by Ruby Lal.
They’re not Mormons.
I have lived in the Mid-East on and off for about 6 years. The Qur’an provides for the husband to marry up to four women, but he should get the first wife’s or earlier wives’ permission before marrying another, and there should be a reason for the extra wife (e.g. the first one is infertile). The permission thing doesn’t always happen, and can be grounds for divorce by the wife, entitling her to keep all of her dowry.
The key thing to keep in mind with Muslim polygamy is that the husband is obliged to treat each of his wives equally. If he buys one a house, he must buy each of the others a house of similar value. Same goes for jewellery and other items. Same thing for sex - he has to spread himself around equally. He must also ensure (if he doesn’t have a family compound with a multitude of houses) that each wife has her own private room and bathroom. What this means is that most Muslim men can’t afford to have more than one wife!
I have spoken to women who were a first or second wife, who have different things to say. Sometimes it can be very handy, in terms of having a free baby-sitter on hand or picking kids up from school, or just having him leave you alone now and then, but there is always some favouritism and bias. Men, huh!
They are and they aren’t.
http://www.ishipress.com/utah-pol.htm
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose founder sanctioned polygamy, has excommunicated polygamists for more than a century. …Even though they are not members of the Mormon Church, most polygamists in Utah call themselves “Mormon fundamentalists,” reaching back over 150 years in church history to the early 1840s, when Joseph Smith, the church founder, sanctioned the practice
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/05/19/utah.polygamy/index.html
*Tom Green, 52, a self-professed “fundamentalist” Mormon who lives with his five wives and 29 children near Trout Creek, 125 miles southwest of Salt Lake City, had testified that he married the women in a spiritual sense. *
This rather odd cite:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html
Has collected info on several “Mormon” polygamist churches
*Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS)
Canadian FLDS polygamists Bountiful, British Columbia
Latter Day Church of Christ, The Kingston Klan of Utah
Church of the Lamb of God, Ervil LeBaron
Apostolic United Brethren, Allred Klan
The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Later Days, *
*By the 1970s, “Mormon” had become so common that the LDS Church began to use the term in its radio and television Public Service Announcements which ended: “A message from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: the Mormons.” More recently the organization has asked the media to use the church’s complete name and to follow any second reference with the name “The Church of Jesus Christ.”
Claims for exclusivity of usage are primarily to avoid confusion between the LDS Church and “Mormon Fundamentalist” groups. LDS Church officials state “Mormon”, “Mormon fundamentalist” and “Mormon dissident”, when used in reference to organizations or groups outside of the LDS Church (especially those that practice plural marriage), is a misunderstanding of Mormon theology; in particular the principle of continuous revelation and Priesthood authority. In 1998, the current president of the LDS Church, Gordon B. Hinckley, said:
“I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatsoever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members. They are in violation of the civil law . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church*.”…
*Some scholars, such as J. Gordon Melton, in his Encyclopedia of American Religion, subdivide the Mormons into Utah Mormons and Missouri Mormons.
In this scheme, the Utah Mormon group includes all the organizations descending from those Mormons who followed Brigham Young to what is now Utah. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is by far the largest of these groups, and the only group to initially reside in Utah. The Missouri Mormons group includes those Mormons who did not travel to Utah, and the organizations formed from them — the Community of Christ, Church of Christ (Temple Lot), Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, etc.
In its October Conference of 1890, the LDS Church declared that it would discontinue the practice of plural marriage. The policy was accepted by unanimous vote of those in attendance. Nearly 20 years later, however, individuals surfaced who claimed that polygamy was a “fundamental” belief of Mormonism and could not be discarded. They formed several small congregations and communities advocating the necessity of polygamy and other doctrinal differences with the LDS Church. While these smaller groups have memberships in the hundreds or thousands, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now claims a worldwide membership of over 12 million [1]. Due to heavy media focus on these fractional bodies, however, misidentification of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with these polygamous groups is not uncommon. These groups include the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Kingston clan, the True & Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days and a few others. Most of these groups have headquarters in Utah, with communities in Idaho, Arizona, Colorado, British Columbia, Alberta, Mexico and Great Britain. Addtionally, several dozen “fundamentalists” claim affiliation with no group other than their own family.
The terms “Utah Mormon” and “Missouri Mormon” are problematic because the majority of each of these branches’ members no longer live in either of these states. Although a majority of Utahans are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the LDS Church has a large membership in other states, most notably Arizona, California, Idaho and Nevada, and the majority of the church’s membership today resides outside of the United States. Nor are all “Missouri Mormons” based in Missouri. Notable exceptions include the Pennsylvania-based Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite) which considers Sidney Rigdon Joseph Smith’s rightful successor and the Wisconsin-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite) which considers James J. Strang Smith’s rightful successor*
So, yes, Monty is right. THE Mormon church will excommunicate you if you are caught praticing polygamy. But Monty is wrong too, as there are other Mormon/LDS churches. Just like there are several Catholic Churches, but when we talk about THE Catholic Church, we mean the big one, HQed in Rome, under the Pope. So, don’t get them confused.
Mainstream LDS says the fundamentalist polygamists are not “true” Mormons. The fundamentalist polygamists say Mainstream LDS is not “true” Mormonism.
For more information about this, and about the social dynamics of a multiple-wife arrangement, see the book Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer.
How many times are we going to do this? Everybody in the entire world, with the exception of the leadership of the LDS church, considers the word ‘Mormon’ to mean a follower of one of the many sects based on the religion started by Joseph Smith.
That this fact is inconvenient to you is not a justification for continued hijacks of GQ threads.
I have a small anecdote to add as it applies to Muslim polygamy…
I spent nearly a month in Greece with my exchange family (German) some years ago and on our first night in northern Greece we met a very nice Muslim man at a Taverna. He befriended us, and in a typical show of Greek, and I assume, Muslim hospitality insisted that we spend the night at his home. We accepted and accompanied him to his home.
This very kind Greek man had two wives and a daughter by each. The building he owned was a large two story building with each flat or story having an exactly identical floorplan. One wife and daughter lived on the bottom floor and the other wife and daughter on the top floor. He evacuated his second wife and daughter from the top floor to stay downstairs with the rest and gave us the top floor as guests. I thought it was a joke at first, but each flat was exactly identical to the other, right down to floorplan, furnishings, carpeting, and even the paintings on the walls. It was a very weird feeling of deja vu. Each apartment was literally identical to the other in every way.
I was confused at first, but my exchange Father explained the very egalitarian Quranic proscribement for multiple wives. That each should be provided for equally and without favoritism. I thought this was a very literal interpretation, and in practice very surreal, but it evidently worked for them.
First and last polygamist I have ever met. They were extremely kind and generous people.
I have, however, met a lot of alduterers and players since then, but I guess that’s not the same as polygamy. They weren’t quite as kind nor generous either.
I guess that’s not entirely true. I have met polyamorists before. I suppose that’s slightly different, but it might just be just semantics. Incidentally, they were also very kind and generous people. I suppose they had a similar philosophy.
[nitpick]
Mercury astronauts wen up solo. Gemini astronauts went in pairs. Very careful crew selections may account for the lack of blood during the Apollo missions.