Positive Gun News of the Day

[carnivorousplant]

I’m glad that the Good Guys didn’t shoot each other. They knew what they were doing.

[eschereal]

@Anglachel

For those too busy to click links, the shooter injured two teenage girls and an adult. It was apparently random and the attacker was definitely mentally ill.

For those of you not interested in actually reading links,

@[“Sounds like the two bystanders did a bang up job.

(https://www.yahoo.com/gma/civilian-shoots-kills-suspect-opened-fire-oklahoma-city-100100575--abc-news-topstories.html)"]Matthews said the police “have no records of anybody making any other reports” on Tilghman in their system, though he did have a record of a 2003 arrest for domestic assault and battery from when he was 13 years old.

Matthews said that police have not found any record of Tilghman having mental health issues, though said that if someone is to commit “an act like this, you’d have to assume that he probably had a little bit of mental illness.”

“Definitely mentally ill” does not quite sound accurate.

[Anglachel]

@eschereal

For those of you not interested in actually reading links,

“Definitely mentally ill” does not quite sound accurate.

Then please refer to:

'Satan is after me': Oklahoma gunman who targeted restaurant posted troubling...

The Oklahoman: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, News, Politics and Sports

The previous quote was much earlier in the investigation.

[aceplace57]

This situation was a bit unusual. It occurred moments after the shooter had left the scene. He was still armed and wearing hearing/eye protection.

Imho it’s reasonable to assume this shooter would have harmed other people.

I’m thankful there were armed citizens that stopped him.

[eschereal]

So you are saying that shooting a crazy person who had a gun is a good thing because, well, there is just not much we can do about keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people?

[carnivorousplant]

@eschereal

So you are saying that shooting a crazy person who had a gun is a good thing because, well, there is just not much we can do about keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people?

Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don’t see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.

[k9bfriender]

@carnivorousplant

Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don’t see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.

Tranquilizer darts, tasers, or other forms of non-lethal (or less lethal anyway) weapons deployed by drones may not be terrible.

Though, had the people simply tackled him, rather than retreating to their cars to get their guns first, he would have had less time to pose a danger to others, and he would more likely to be alive today to answer for what he did.

[eschereal]

@carnivorousplant

Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don’t see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.

You see “shooting a crazy person who had a gun” as a net positive, because you are looking at the phrase as a whole. And I do not disagree that stopping him was a good thing. But I see the second half of the phrase, “a crazy person who had a gun” and want to know how that happened and what we can do to make it happen less.

[carnivorousplant]

@k9bfriender

Though, had the people simply tackled him, rather than retreating to their cars to get their guns first, he would have had less time to pose a danger to others, and he would more likely to be alive today to answer for what he did.

That’s the Black guy I mentioned who threw the weapon behind a counter.
I takes a braver guy than I to tackle a guy who is shooting people.

[k9bfriender]

@carnivorousplant

That’s the Black guy I mentioned who threw the weapon behind a counter.
I takes a braver guy than I to tackle a guy who is shooting people.

It’s not the weapon in your hand, but the bravery in your heart that truly saves the day.

[carnivorousplant]

@eschereal

But I see the second half of the phrase, “a crazy person who had a gun” and want to know how that happened and what we can do to make it happen less.

I believe we can all agree on that.

[Czarcasm]

@carnivorousplant

Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don’t see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.

1. I didn’t see "tranquilizer darts"mentioned.
2. I really dislike the euphemism “stopped” used instead of “killed”.

[Orwell]

@Czarcasm

1. I didn’t see "tranquilizer darts"mentioned.
2. I really dislike the euphemism “stopped” used instead of “killed”.

Regarding your second #1, I don’t understand. Whether it’s a cop or a private citizen, the goal is to stop the criminal, not kill him. End the immediate threat. I realize there is a little semantics and even some legal awareness at play, but when someone is protecting themselves or others, they want to stop the threat, not kill someone.

[Shodan]

“Stopped” is more accurate, because you don’t shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat.

Regards,
Shodan

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Shodan

“Stopped” is more accurate, because you don’t shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat.

Who shoots to injure? Police don’t.

Police are trained to stop dangerous, life-threatening or murderous behavior, Kelly said. This holds true for all police departments across the country, he added.

Anytime a firearm is discharged, it’s considered deadly force, said David Klinger, professor of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. Shooting to injure or maim someone wouldn’t stop an aggressive subject, Klinger said, and officers are trying to stop the threat to their life, or the life of their partner or a citizen.

“Why would we want to injure or maim people?” he said. “It doesn’t stop them.”

Because of the potential risks, it would be “very difficult” to train officers to shoot to wound instead, Kelly said. If someone’s life is in jeopardy, shooting to maim or injure will have little effect on the actions of the individual who is trying to kill, Klinger added.

Additionally, if an officer aims at anything other than the torso area, the odds that he or she will miss increase greatly, Klinger said. But aiming for the chest means that the type of wounds suspects usually sustain are likely to be fatal, he added.

SOURCE: Experts on Why Police Aren't Trained to Shoot to Wound - ABC News

[carnivorousplant]

The sentence “he could kill several people if not killed” sounded awkward to me.
I guess “he could kill several people if not killed himself” is a little better.

He was standing there shooting people; I don’t see any other way than to shoot him. Stun guns just seemed to annoy Rodney King, for example.

[Shodan]

@Whack-a-Mole

Who shoots to injure? Police don’t.

Correct. They don’t shoot to injure, they don’t shoot to kill. They shoot to stop the threat.

Regards,
Shodan

[Czarcasm]

@Shodan

Correct. They don’t shoot to injure, they don’t shoot to kill. They shoot to stop the threat.

And the “threat” is considered effectively stopped when…?

[carnivorousplant]

@Czarcasm

And the “threat” is considered effectively stopped when…?

When the guy is dead, meaning that he can no longer be a threat.
I believe that law enforcement is generally to quick to shoot, but the idea is that the dead guy was going to injure or kill other people, not that he is running away or speeding.

[Bone]

Bringing us back on topic. In other news, Homeowner shoots burglary suspect inside Lake Worth house:

A homeowner, who said he woke up to a flash of light, shot an unknown man last week inside his Lake Worth home, Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office deputies say.
…
The homeowner said he saw Mouassite holding a flashlight on the second floor of his home. He then shot Mouassite to “defend himself as well as his wife and daughter,” a deputy wrote in the report.
…
Court records show Mouassite was out on bond from a March arrest on drug-related charges.

DGU with no deaths. I’d not recommend giving chase outside the home, but these are tactical decisions. The intruder appears to have claimed he went to the wrong house. Indeed.