Post Divorce: My little girl misses her Mom. I'm getting angry. [long]

In My Humble Opinion
121

[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan]
Eight-year-olds really need their moms

It’s a big part of the age. They just do.
[/QUOTE]

Amen. It’s true.

If it makes you dads out there feel any better, my own experience, and observation of girls I’ve seen grow up, is that girls really need their dads at 14 and 15. My mother was a frickin’ idiot* when I was 14, but my dad - wow, my dad was so nice and smart and he understood me and he cared about me!

I assume it’s something to do with the maturing female and a safe practice ground for her burgeoning interest in adult males, but whatever it is, your time will come. Just don’t alienate your daughter in the meantime, and you’ll get your chance to be the parent of choice in a few years.
*Note: not really. But it took about 7 years before I could listen to her voice without cringing and sighing.

122

[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan]

One resource I’ve used a lot as my son had grown are a series of books written by the folks who run a child development lab at Yale. I’m not suggesting you run out and buy them, but I did want to share something I learned when I read the 8-year-olds volume last year:
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Mild Hijack: What is the name of this series?

123

[QUOTE=Belrix]
Grayhairmomma, this isn’t my week with for custody of the children. Taking my daughter to the doctor for a non-emergency would violate the law, thankyouverymuch. Besides - any liver problems she has today are not imminently life threatening, the process of drawing blood would scare the snot out of her so I’d like to avoid it if possible, and I missed the doctor’s callback due to a work meeting and I’m now waiting on my next callback/followup.

ETA: The doctor just called, he says that there’s no danger given the dosage, the length of use, and her body weight. He also confirmed the web’s general opinion that Benedryl is, in fact, not a very good sleep aid. He also gave me the name of two family therapists.
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This right here, is BS. You don’t wait until something is “imminently life threatening” in order to have it checked out. So you can’t legally take her this week - why haven’t you made an appoint for the next day you have her? So what if it scares her to have blood drawn?

You know maybe the doctor is right and she is fine. But it would seem to me that you should be a little more concerned about finding out for sure.

124

[QUOTE=grayhairedmomma]
This right here, is BS. You don’t wait until something is “imminently life threatening” in order to have it checked out. So you can’t legally take her this week - why haven’t you made an appoint for the next day you have her? So what if it scares her to have blood drawn?

You know maybe the doctor is right and she is fine. But it would seem to me that you should be a little more concerned about finding out for sure.
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I have the medical opinion of the doctor that delivered her and has been her primary care physician for the past 8 years that there are no concerns related to the use of Tylenol at this dosage & duration given her age & size. Yet, you still want to beat this horse.

And your medical credentials are…?

125

Did you mention that it was Tylenol PM? What did he think about the Benadryl?

I agree with everyone that thinks that 1) a daily phone call seems reasonable but 2) not right before bed. Much earlier in the day, like lunchtime or before, might lead to less drama/trauma at bedtime.

(PS: Crankyasanoldman, I’d like the name of that series also!)

126

[QUOTE=MsWhatsit]
Did you mention that it was Tylenol PM? What did he think about the Benadryl?

I agree with everyone that thinks that 1) a daily phone call seems reasonable but 2) not right before bed. Much earlier in the day, like lunchtime or before, might lead to less drama/trauma at bedtime.

(PS: Crankyasanoldman, I’d like the name of that series also!)
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From my page 2 posting:

As far as the phone call goes - I tried moving it earlier in the evening one time and she had her call. When bedtime came, she insisted on another. It has to be right before bedtime to make her happy. If I move it earlier, I’m going to need my Ex’s cooperation on it.

127

[QUOTE=Belrix]
As far as the phone call goes - I tried moving it earlier in the evening one time and she had her call. When bedtime came, she insisted on another. It has to be right before bedtime to make her happy. If I move it earlier, I’m going to need my Ex’s cooperation on it.
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It isn’t for your 8 year old to insist on anything in your house. Seriously, who’s running your household, anyway? This isn’t all about making an 8 year old happy; this is about setting boundaries and clear expectations and routines. In the long term, that’s what’s going to make her happy anyway: She will know that no matter how crazy things are at Mom’s, Dad’s is welcoming, peaceful, sane, and always the same. You won’t be upsetting yourself, your wife, or your other kids, in order to give in to one child’s demands. I understand that as a loving father, you want her happiness to be your paramount concern, but it shouldn’t be. She’s not the only one in your house.

So once again: You explain to her some other time, during the day, what the deal and why: “When you talk to Mom right before bedtime, you get really upset. And then you get out of your bed several times in the night, and that’s not okay, either. So we’re going to move your call to Mom to earlier in the afternoon so that you have time to calm down before we go to bed. Hopefully that way you’ll sleep better, too.”

She’ll either agree to that, or she’ll promise you not to get upset. So you let the call take place as usual, and if she (your daughter) manages the problem herself (i.e., doesn’t get upset), fine. If she does, the next day you have the same conversation as before, now telling her the moving of the call is not negotiable because she already said she wouldn’t get upset, and she did so anyway.

And that’s the end of it. If bedtime comes and there’s screaming and crying, she’s put in her room and there are consequences for her behavior – privileges taken away, extra chores laid on. The issue of the phone call is irrelevant, your ex wife is irrelevant: You are focusing on your daughter’s behavior, and what your expectations are in your home.

You do NOT need your ex wife’s cooperation for it. She doesn’t have some inalienable right to talk to your daughter everyday at the same hour, when allowing that is disturbing your whole house. Certainly it would be miles better to get your ex’s buy-in on it, and I encourage you to do so, but you can do this without her if you have to.

128

[QUOTE=Belrix]

As far as the phone call goes - I tried moving it earlier in the evening one time and she had her call. When bedtime came, she insisted on another. It has to be right before bedtime to make her happy.
[/QUOTE]
You seem to be terribly confused about the roles of a parent and a child. YOU set the rules, SHE abides by them. If you say 1 phone call and only 1 phone call, and not before bedtime, then that’s how it is, and she will learn to deal with it.

You really, really do need help.

129

[QUOTE=Belrix]
I have the medical opinion of the doctor that delivered her and has been her primary care physician for the past 8 years that there are no concerns related to the use of Tylenol at this dosage & duration given her age & size. Yet, you still want to beat this horse.

And your medical credentials are…?
[/QUOTE]
You’re questioning my credentials? I’m not the one who’s been deliberately overmedicating my kid for a year and taking no responsibility for my child’s health when she’s at “home”. It is mind boggling that you have the idea that what goes on at your ex’s house, with regards to your children’s health, is out of your hands.

You say your ex lies all the time about stuff, even about decreasing the dosage of medication for your daughter. Knowing this, how can you know that she didn’t give your daughter MORE than one pill every night in order to get her to sleep through the night?

I have 11 years of experience in dealing with separate households. I know that you can’t control everything that goes on in the other house, but there are some issues you just don’t give up on no matter how acrimonious the relationship.

130

It’s called The Gesell Institute. They have a series of books that have titles like “Your Two year Old: Active and Growing” or “Your Nine Year Old: Independent and Inquisitive.” I’m getting the descriptors wrong, but you get the idea. Amazon.com sells their books.

I can encapsulate the books for you, if you like:

(1) Yeah, that’s normal
(2) This too shall pass

Seriously, that’s mostly what I get out of them. Not to say that they aren’t valuable–they are! Those books helped me not to overreact to or worry about certain stages. When my son seemed needy last year, I didn’t wonder if he’d regressed (which I might have otherwise) and I didn’t try to force him to regain some independence (which I may have felt compelled to do). I just dialed in to him at those times and let him know he had my full attention. I knew that was what he needed, and it was really reassuring to me to know that this was the right thing to do.

They also have found that kids go through periods of disequilibrium that you just have to ride out. Not that you should let difficult behavior go unaddressed during those times, but it’s useful to know that sometimes kids are tougher than others, and that in six months the kid may be on the upswing. It may not be entirely about your parenting or the child’s personality. It’s part of development.

They’re super-quick reads.

131

[QUOTE=grayhairedmomma]
You’re questioning my credentials? I’m not the one who’s been deliberately overmedicating my kid for a year and taking no responsibility for my child’s health when she’s at “home”. It is mind boggling that you have the idea that what goes on at your ex’s house, with regards to your children’s health, is out of your hands.

You say your ex lies all the time about stuff, even about decreasing the dosage of medication for your daughter. Knowing this, how can you know that she didn’t give your daughter MORE than one pill every night in order to get her to sleep through the night?

I have 11 years of experience in dealing with separate households. I know that you can’t control everything that goes on in the other house, but there are some issues you just don’t give up on no matter how acrimonious the relationship.
[/QUOTE]

I believe that only one pill was given because my 8 year old knows how to count.

I think the Tylenol subject is pretty much covered & closed but you’re trying hard to (a) get the last word in and (b) make sure you stay right.

132

[QUOTE=Belrix]
I have the medical opinion of the doctor that delivered her and has been her primary care physician for the past 8 years that there are no concerns related to the use of Tylenol at this dosage & duration given her age & size. Yet, you still want to beat this horse.

And your medical credentials are…?
[/QUOTE]

Seriously, get a second opinion. Draw blood.

For years my sister was told, and we were told, by TWO rehab clinics run by MDs “she doesn’t drink enough for it to do physical damage to her liver” They were wrong. My sister nearly died. Unless they do a blood scan, they don’t know. Also, I don’t get the feeling that you trust your wife…half a Tylenol every night - what was happening when she still wasn’t asleep half an hour later - another half hour? And half an hour after that? I have an eight year old sometimes insomniac we occasionally treat with Benedryl - and occasionally it doesn’t work - I’ve been there at eleven at night looking at the Benedryl dosage charts and thinking “maybe one more would get her to sleep.”

(Valarian does not always work, but seems to work better than the benedryl at calming her down. I restrict that as well though - herbal remedies really haven’t gone through extensive testing for safety. Do not give a child meletonin)

Doctors sometimes play the odds - they look at the circumstances and say “well, that isn’t likely to be anything.”

And no one is eager to have an excuse to draw blood on an eight year old.

133

[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan]
It’s called The Gesell Institute. They have a series of books that have titles like “Your Two year Old: Active and Growing” or “Your Nine Year Old: Independent and Inquisitive.” I’m getting the descriptors wrong, but you get the idea. Amazon.com sells their books.
[/QUOTE]

Sounds like the Ames & Ilg series – those are the authors. I’ve heard lots of good things about them, and I’m getting ready to get them for my soon-to-be one-year-old.

Belrix, one other thing that might help you work out problems with your daughter (and with other people, for that matter), is to separate her from the problem in your mind. If, in your mind, your daughter is the problem, you’re going to have a long road ahead of you. But if you can think of her sleep as the problem, separate from her, then it becomes something the two of you can work on together. You won’t be adversaries, and she won’t feel that her daddy thinks something is wrong with her, or that she’s in trouble for things she doesn’t entirely know how to control. It will probably also help you get less frustrated with her!

This is basically the concept behind a lot of the other advice you’ve gotten on this page – talking with her about it during the day, etc. It also might help you be a little less angry if you can apply this to your ex-wife as well. At the very least, apply this concept to your daughter’s bedtime phone call with mom – don’t make it sound like mommy is the problem (even if you think that’s the case). The phone call happening at bedtime is the problem, and you and your daughter can work together to come up with a solution that keeps the peace in your house.

134

[QUOTE=Belrix]
I believe that only one pill was given because my 8 year old knows how to count.

I think the Tylenol subject is pretty much covered & closed but you’re trying hard to (a) get the last word in and (b) make sure you stay right.
[/QUOTE]

So–time to open another subject! You apparently made good use of that painful time without custody of the children. You managed to find a new wife. Or–did you already know her?

Please, stop talking about “that whore who ruined my life.” You’ve got a new life now. With a new wife & a new home. And children who need good parenting.

No–I’m not a parent. Just a single woman who was never attracted to the guys whose idea of courtship was an endless monolog on “that bitch, my ex-wife.”

Your daughter needs to see a doctor. And all of you need therapy.

135

[QUOTE=Belrix]
I have the medical opinion of the doctor that delivered her and has been her primary care physician for the past 8 years that there are no concerns related to the use of Tylenol at this dosage & duration given her age & size. Yet, you still want to beat this horse.

And your medical credentials are…?
[/QUOTE]

As a nurse who has seen Benadryl given to numerous patients in the hospital as a sleeping aid, I have to wonder why on earth her doctor would say that Benadryl is not an effective sleeping agent. As I mentioned earlier, not everyone responds to the sedating antihistamine…but to dismiss it out of hand and say it isn’t effective? That’s a pretty ignorant statement considering how often it is dispensed in medical facilities as the first line of defense for insomnia. Odd that since it isn’t effective that the makers of all of the “PM” sleep aids use it as their active ingredient.

Considering the half-life of acetaminophen and her lengthy use (over a year), it’s also really surprising that the doctor had no interest in doing a liver scan or specific bloodwork to check ALT. In a 2 week study of adults, they found that upwards of 44% of them had their liver enzymes raised (one to dangerous levels) after ingesting 4mg of acetaminophen daily. One Tylenol PM has 500mg of acetaminophen. Even for adults, daily use of the drug is not recommended for adults.

It is most likely that your daughter’s liver is fine (not a medical opinion, just looking at the odds), but I think I’d have some doubts about a doctor who chooses to not even draw blood to check before declaring, sight unseen, that the child is fine especially (as you specified) considering the length of use by a child…when adults shouldn’t even use it that long.

136

[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan]
It’s called The Gesell Institute. They have a series of books that have titles like “Your Two year Old: Active and Growing” or “Your Nine Year Old: Independent and Inquisitive.” I’m getting the descriptors wrong, but you get the idea. Amazon.com sells their books.

I can encapsulate the books for you, if you like:

(1) Yeah, that’s normal
(2) This too shall pass

Seriously, that’s mostly what I get out of them. Not to say that they aren’t valuable–they are! Those books helped me not to overreact to or worry about certain stages. When my son seemed needy last year, I didn’t wonder if he’d regressed (which I might have otherwise) and I didn’t try to force him to regain some independence (which I may have felt compelled to do). I just dialed in to him at those times and let him know he had my full attention. I knew that was what he needed, and it was really reassuring to me to know that this was the right thing to do.

They also have found that kids go through periods of disequilibrium that you just have to ride out. Not that you should let difficult behavior go unaddressed during those times, but it’s useful to know that sometimes kids are tougher than others, and that in six months the kid may be on the upswing. It may not be entirely about your parenting or the child’s personality. It’s part of development.

They’re super-quick reads.
[/QUOTE]

I’ll just go ahead and quote your whole post – I LOVE LOVE LOVE that series!

Mine are in disequilibrium again. It’s like a switch flips, every summer. And then they flip. My daughter had a huge screaming fit this morning b/c she couldn’t get the fence she was building to stand. Yesterday it was my son, screaming and crying. July-August-September, every year, they go nuts.

But then at Christmas, they’re sweet dollies again for the relatives.

I feel for people w/summer babies, I’ll bet their holiday seasons are rough! At least I can take mine to the pool.

Louise Bates Ames is the author. My Borders up the street still carries them on the shelf.

137

[QUOTE=Sleeps With Butterflies]
As a nurse who has seen Benadryl given to numerous patients in the hospital as a sleeping aid, I have to wonder why on earth her doctor would say that Benadryl is not an effective sleeping agent. As I mentioned earlier, not everyone responds to the sedating antihistamine…but to dismiss it out of hand and say it isn’t effective? That’s a pretty ignorant statement considering how often it is dispensed in medical facilities as the first line of defense for insomnia. Odd that since it isn’t effective that the makers of all of the “PM” sleep aids use it as their active ingredient.
[/QUOTE]

What I’m gathering from the magical world of the internet is that while Benedryl makes you sleep, it’s not necessarily restful sleep. Yes, your body is turned off, your eyes are closed, but your not any better rested in the morning as a result of having taken the pill that you would’ve otherwise been.

I think that’s often the case with me. Yeah, I’ll sleep but my dreaming is kicked up a notch and I wake feeling beaten and dopey.

Valerian root seems to be better for me in making me feel more rested in the morning.

138

[QUOTE=Belrix]

What I’m gathering from the magical world of the internet is that while Benedryl makes you sleep, it’s not necessarily restful sleep. Yes, your body is turned off, your eyes are closed, but your not any better rested in the morning as a result of having taken the pill that you would’ve otherwise been.

I think that’s often the case with me. Yeah, I’ll sleep but my dreaming is kicked up a notch and I wake feeling beaten and dopey.

Valerian root seems to be better for me in making me feel more rested in the morning.
[/QUOTE]
How on earth does this matter a DAMN? Who CARES how benedryl affects YOU?

You and your ex have been giving it to a 7 to 8 year-old, NIGHTLY, for a YEAR. Along with the combined acetaminophen in the same pill, which is recommended AGAINST giving to children under 12 RIGHT ON THE BOTTLE.

Sleeps with Butterflies tells you he’s/she’s a nurse, quotes some scientific research on the subject, and implores you to have your child SEEN by a physician, and THIS is the part of their post you choose to respond to?

You never cease to stop stunning me here.

139

[QUOTE=Shayna]
How on earth does this matter a DAMN? Who CARES how benedryl affects YOU?

You and your ex have been giving it to a 7 to 8 year-old, NIGHTLY, for a YEAR. Along with the combined acetaminophen in the same pill, which is recommended AGAINST giving to children under 12 RIGHT ON THE BOTTLE.

Sleeps with Butterflies tells you he’s/she’s a nurse, quotes some scientific research on the subject, and implores you to have your child SEEN by a physician, and THIS is the part of their post you choose to respond to?

You never cease to stop stunning me here.
[/QUOTE]

I’ve read the scientific research, I knew of the study she quoted, in fact.

It was my experience with Benedryl that made me want to get her off if as soon as I could make it happen. That’s why it’s significant.

I’ve also talked with my child’s pediatrician. A DOCTOR WHO HAS MY CHILD’S CHART IN FRONT OF HIM, HAS SEEN HER DOZENS OF TIMES, AND ORIGINALLY PRESCRIBED THE USE OF A SLEEP AID !!!

God God. You’ll take the word of a stranger, a nurse, over the Doctor who knows my kid. Get off your high and mighty, holier-than-thou horse.

140

Belrix, it would not be the first time a doctor, even one that knows the kid really well, makes a mistake. I hear stories about this kind of stuff all the time…“my doctor told me for years it was nothing until I finally went to get a second opinion…and then I was already in the advanced stages.”

Why wouldn’t you get a second opinion?

And I don’t think Shayna deserves the stuff you said in your last sentence. Nasty.