Apparently I'm not over my divorce

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Strange what triggers painful memories.

Yesterday I used the search functions and was looking over threads I’ve started here on the SDMB. It started over something innocuous, just some curiosity that I’ve already forgotten. In that process though, I found the threads related to my marital problems and the painful separation and divorce. Of course, in the spirit of self-flagellation, I read them.

Later that day my now Ex- calls me up. Seems my oldest son, 5th grade, has been tempted to join the school band. He wants to play the saxophone just like I did when I was in school (and even a bit in college). “Did I still have my old saxophone I could let him use?”, she asked.

No. No, I don’t. It was one of the many things that I guess got lost in the separation. She moved out of our common home a week before I did, leaving me with an incredible mess of abandoned things. I did all I could in the two weeks following, no help from her, to gather, sort, and otherwise save possessions but a lot got left for the landlord to deal with. (He handled it by hiring a person and renting a dumpster. The full-sized roll-off variety).

Somehow in all that furious flurry of activity, my old saxophone was left behind. Yesterday I searched my one-bedroom apartment and my storage unit for it and it wasn’t there. It really bothers me that I can’t pass this along to my son - not that it was a spectacular instrument, not that it was valuable (although having in instrument would be cheaper than buying or renting one). It’s just another pain brought on by her actions.

I stopped through a instrument store yesterday and asked about rentals. There was a flyer for lessons and I went, “Oh, yeah. Well there’s another expense.” Then I had a mental beat and I thought, “Well, I can teach him myself - shouldn’t be hard.” Another beat and I was like, “Oh, yeah. How can I do that if I only see him every other weekend.”

My little girl referred to the current boyfriend’s mother as “Grammy <Firstname>” the other day. Casually. As if this was her new family.

It seemed somehow like this whole pile of shit was somehow renewed last night. All the lost stuff. Lost possessions. Lost time. Lost potential. It piled up somehow and I spent the night on the verge of crying in frustration. For the first time in a while, the hints of my old suicidal self peeked out from behind my mental curtains. I stuffed that thought back into the depths.

I’ve negotiated half-custody with my kids starting when my lease runs out in March but that’s six months away. 8 months gone, six more to go. More than a year of my kids’ lives cut from mine.

Yeah, I get every other weekend and one night a week for dinner. It’s not enough. Half-time with the kids isn’t enough. It’s not right that they have to swap back and forth between houses. It’s not right that they have to deal with a broken family.

My oldest tried to refer to a previous vacation, “Remember when we went to Yellowstone…” he said. “…back when we were a family?”

Yeah, “Back when we were a family”. This separation and divorce will be a liminal event in their minds for the rest of their lives. I have an “Ohana” sticker on my car which, thanks to Lilo and Stitch, is supposed to act as a reminder that we’re still a family. I tell my son that “we’re still a family, we’re just a different kind now”. That feels like an empty platitude to me so it has to be that way to him. I know I don’t really believe it.

He had to write a paragraph biography for his teacher last week. It says nothing about the divorce even thought I suggested an obtuse way to refer to it: saying that he spends time at both his mother’s and father’s houses. Nope. Nothing even obtuse. Just denial.

My little girl, freshly turned 8 years old, can’t get through the night without nightmares waking her. Most weekends with me now, she wakes in my bed, having joined me in the middle of the night. During the day she seems OK but there’s always the possibility she’ll start weeping over seemingly mundane things or small inconveniences.

The pain the kids are going through. The loss of it all.

I don’t know when I’m going to be able to look on this with a, “Fuck it all” attitude. I know I have to move on. I’m trying. I really think I am. Every now and then, though, the dam cracks and the regrets come flooding out to engulf.

I thought writing this might be cathartic. Maybe a way to push this to some external storage location. I may be wrong and I almost closed the window without hitting “Submit”. But, well, what the heck…

2

I am sitting at work in tears. That had so much emotion.

{{{{{Belrix}}}}}

All I can say it is does get better. Keep you chin up.

3

Wow. Just wow.

(((((((Belrix)))))))

Your pain is palpable. I hope you find some comfort here on the Dope, even if it is small. I remember you posting about the Lilo & Stitch thing, and it was a brave and good things to do for your kids. Though I am at an absolute loss to comprehend what you must be going through, I do offer you my sincerest well-wishes.

4

You know, I’ve never been through a divorce, so while I can sympathize with your feelings on that front, I can’t empathize.

But there’s one aspect of your post on which I am a plumb expert, so here you go:

Your children will indeed remember the separation and divorce for the rest of their lives. And for a while it will hurt, and they will wonder why they can’t spend time with mother and father at once. And then one day your son’s friend will tell your son about his own parents, who can’t make it through a weekend without fighting. And your daughter’s friend will tell yoru daughter about her parents, who live together and don’t fight but don’t seem to love one another very much or be very happy. And your son will realize that his friend doesn’t really understand how to have a relationship without arguing, and your daughter will realize that her friend is kind of shut off, emotionally.

And they’ll suddenly get it. And they’ll be glad that you and your ex-wife were willing and able to teach them that it’s important to be happy, that everyone deserves the chance to pursue happiness. They’ll see and understand what you’ve done to maintain your relationship with them - the effort, the obvious love.

In short - even if you’re in pain - the kids are all right. Or they will be.

5

That sucks. Really sucks.

I’m not over my divorce, but that’s because of legal entanglements, not emotional ones.

Are you in therapy? If you’re not, go!

If you don’t want to do it for yourself, do it for your kids. You sound pretty bad, and it’s hard to take positive steps for oneself when you feel that low. But do you want your kids to see you like that, and not doing anything about it?

Kids notice things. I’m sure that what you want them to see is you at your best, or at least working towards being your best.

Divorce sucks. Yours sucked really bad. Get some help. We all care.

6

My heart bleeds for you.

And reminds me why working to save a marriage if it is possible, is worth it.

I’m sitting here watching my husband and daughter, she’s sitting on his desk, facing him, playing with a CD case and giving him kisses.

We’ve been through hell, but we are still here. Thank you so much for reminding me why.

7

Heh. Sometimes one’s life is best used as a warning to others. Joke aside, though, I am convinced that “staying together for this children” is a bad choice, too.

This is a second attempt to post this update. The last attempt was lost in some fumble-fingered combination that closed the window. Not Alt-F4 so it beats me what I did.

I’ll shorten it since the previous was getting too self-pitying anyway.

I talked with her last night. Conversations about saxophones turned somehow to apartments (she lives in a low-rent, crappy building). She’s been saying she wants to move for six months but now seems ready, as soon as small house she’s been watching comes available. She prevaricated a bit and said that the next part was hard to bring up.

“Ron (current boyfriend) is moving in with you.”, I said.

“Probably.” (yeah right. It’s a requirement, she can’t afford the increase without him.)

I told her I didn’t approve but I realize that I didn’t get a vote. I think she’s teaching our children improper ways of dating. There was the boyfriend of a month that moved in with her the day she moved out of our home. He stayed for slightly less than three months. This boyfriend has been around for six whole months, they’re deeply, eternally in love. He’s already been staying over a lot.

The kids just starting spending time with my girlfriend of 9 months, dinners, daytrips. They were confused two weeks ago when they found she wasn’t spending the night while they were on their weekend at my place. They have been confused that it took so long for me to introduce them to her. They thought something was wrong with them, that I was embarrassed by them in some way.

Everything they know about dating is from watching their I-want-what-I-want-when-I-want-it mother. And they think something is wrong with them when I’m cautious about bringing women into and out of their lives.

The new boyfriend, given my entire accumulated 5 minutes with him, seems nice. He has a good vibe. He’s probably a good guy and worth dating. Maybe I should be glad for all of this. All I can see, though, is that my children think that healthy dating involves sleep-overs and that a healthy, eternal, move-in-ready relationship can be had for a mere 25 week investment.

I asked her what she thinks she’s teaching our daughter with her actions.

Stumped her on that.

She’s asked my to say less about her in front of the kids. While I don’t actively put down her actions to the kids, I don’t approve of them either and I try to keep my comments neutral. I haven’t, apparently, been quiet enough of my diapproval of her when the kids are in the next room. My son overheard me telling my mother on the phone that the Ex’s apartment looks like crap. (It smells like piss and is buried in drifting piles of clothing and other mess).

She tells me she never bad-mouths me to friends and family. I told her it’s easy to be noble when you were the winner. She claims she’s not but my point to her is that she is living with the results of her choices. I am living entirely with the results of her choices, too. None of this is what I chose.

It sucks but I had my say. I told her that her actions were teaching the kids poor dating behavior. It won’t change anything but at least I’m not just holding my criticism in.

She finally admitted that she was the one who wanted out of the marriage (apparently I’m not caring enough). She persists in her lies about our remaining financial issues and I managed to stop short of using the word “slut”. All hail civilized behavior.

8

Sounds like there is a “change of custody” motion building there - almost self-documenting…

9

I’m told this is a near impossibility. As long as she wants them, isn’t an addict, alcoholic, abuser, etc. best I could ever get from the courts is half-custody and I’ve already negotiated that for March.

The only way for me to get full custody would be for her to voluntarily give that - and she wouldn’t. That surprises me sometimes - the lifestyle she seems to want so badly is hampered by the kids. I’m the quiet homebody. She’s the repressed party girl.

Besides, I think it’s good for the kids to have both of us in their lives as long as we’re both doing right by that responsibility. I obviously don’t think she’s meeting that responsibility.

10

I’m sorry so many of these wounds are still open, Belrix… and may never heal, not entirely, at least not the way you want them to. I have three little boys of my own and I doubt I could bear to be away that much from them. But I know that your kids need you, and love you, and look to you for guidance and love. Don’t stoop to anyone else’s level. Do your best to be the best damned dad on the planet, no matter what others may do. Keep your chin up and be strong. You’ve got a lot of Dopers in your corner.

11

Belrix, my thoughts are with you. My kids are exactly the same age, genders reversed. To state that my marriage is not ideal would be a major understatement. You’ve helped me remember why I’m hanging in there, for the time being.

12

I can share what I have found since my divorce (?5 years ago?). I see my kids less, no doubt about it. But, my kids and I enjoy the time we share so much more, since it isn’t taken for granted. I’ve traveled with my kids, taking my son to Alaska and my daughter to the Caribbean**. They call me to ask advice. We tell each other we love each other more often, and we say it with feeling.

Hope things move in the same direction for you. Kids are tough, try to be as well. :slight_smile:
**You wouldn’t believe the stringency involved with crossing borders with one parent and a child. Even with a notarized letter from their mom, the immigration people take to kid aside and question them!

13

I think that this is what hurts me the most – that my role is being co-opted. A few times my daughter has referred to my ex and her new husband as “my parents.” Because they’re the adults that live with her, and that’s kids call the adults that live with you. The last time she said it I reminded her (not annoyed) that I’m also one of her parents. I don’t want to make her feel like she made a mistake in saying it – she’s eight and probably half-understands this stuff at best.

I’m sure at this point her stepfather has had dinner with her more times than I have, has put her to bed more times, etc. She doesn’t even remember me and her mother together. After years of fighting it I have to accept that my role in her life is still hugely important but a limited one.

I’m not “over” my divorce, either, and it’s been 5 years. One of the reasons I’m avoiding dating for the time being is because it’s hard finding a partner who can accept the ground rules as they have been given to me – the income going out, the (albeit limited) communication with my ex (which mainly consists of fielding criticism), my status as part-time parent. The single women of the world seem to want me to keep fighting it out – that I’m just one court appearance, one thermonuclear threat away from some kind of moral victory. But there’s nothing to win, nothing to be gained except more anger on both sides. My daughter seems happy, she’s not having nightmares or complaining about the two houses. If one of the three of us have to bear a burden, better that it’s me – because she’s just a kid and because her mother would crack. So then it’s mine.

It just can’t be resolved like you’re used to resolving bad relationships. You have to deal with your ex until your kids are grown. Period. You can cut any number of emotional cords but there’s still got ot be something there. You share a child.

Thank you for this. I haven’t travelled abroad with my daughter yet but plan to. I’m sure as a single father you’re under even more suspicion.

14

I’m not sure what you did either, but I’ve done it before. Only seems to happen with long posts.

I’ve never been married, so I’ve never been divorced, but I’ve been through breakups. The good thing about them is that nothing ties you to your ex. You can stay friends, but you don’t have to. But when you have kids, ouch. They’re the lights of your life, but they also tie you to a really dark place. I can’t even imagine.

15

A friend of mine got home one day and heard the baby crying. He went in and saw his kid on the kitchen table, surrounded by cans, and a note saying “it’s your damn kid, you take care of it.”

FFWD, 10 years later the ex and her new husband tried to take the kid out of the country on the same day when they were supposed to return him to my friend in Houston.

At Atlanta airport the customs agent asked the kid “ah, so you’re going to France with your parents?” Kid was very good at doing “calm, quiet voice.” If he said “she is my mom but he is not my dad and I should be on my way to Houston,” you believed it. So by the time my friend managed to get authorities in Houston to call Atlanta, Atlanta was able to report they had the kid and his “parents” in the office.

I’ll be the first one to say that so-called security measures sometimes are just a PITA for the normal traveler, but that’s one situation where I do appreciate the need to make sure everything’s kosher. My friend’s kid wasn’t even traveling with one “parent”… he was travelling with two.

At least he’d been convinced for years and through his own observations that his Mom was an idiot. It wasn’t a sudden, depressing realization. One of the things that made him decide his Mom was an idiot (hey, it’s his words) was that his dad never criticised her, but she missed no chance to criticise his dad - often saying things which the boy knew perfectly well weren’t true.

I’ve never been married, divorced or had kids, but Belrix, I do believe you’re doing the right thing. I also think there’s parts of this that will not stop hurting for a long time. I wish I could make it stop hurting, but all I can do is wish you and your kids my best.

16

Belrix, I’ve read your threads on your divorce with empathy and interest, because I too am fairly recently (well, almost two years now) divorced and there are young chidren in the equation for me as well.

First, my heart goes out to you. Reading your OP brought me the exact same sick feeling I got when I saw my ex a few weeks ago and she had what appeared to be a freshly deposited hickey on her neck. Arrrgggghhhh. If it gets better at all, my friend, it sure doesn’t get better all at once. Please hang in there.

Second, based on what I’ve read here from you, please don’t doubt that you’ve done the right thing in divorcing her. Banish any latent thoughts of reconciliation. Banish the thought that “It would be so much easier on the kids.” It wouldn’t, at least not in any but the most fleeting sense.

Good luck, man. You have a great heart. Just try and keep your head. Your kids will thank you one day.

17

Heartfelt sympathy for your current situation, Belrix… [/manly shoulder grab]

Or your son, for that matter. Your ex wasn’t stumped…she knows that ANY answer she gave would be insufficient or unacceptable…silence was her best answer. But that question had to asked (by you) so she knows how concerned you are about your kids and what they learn regarding relationships between couples.

Try to work on keeping these types of comments from being heard by the kids. Although she’s your ex who is acting like a “slut” in front of the kids, it’s not about how you feel about her situation, it’s about making your kids feel as comfortable as you both can make it for them through this transition. Pitting yourself vs. your ex in front of the kids will make them feel confused, distressed and feel like they are to be blamed for the separation. Give the kids words of encouragement that their Mom is trying to make the living arrangement better with what resources she has. You may not agree with her methods, but right now, it’s all about making the kids feel as comfortable as possible with the current situation.

She’s not the winner. There are no winners here. She is going through the same pain as you are, but she (hopefully) realizes that she is the cause of it. That carries an additional burden that she must reconcile with, one way or another. Her choices did affect you, but try to move beyond the victimhood status and start making choices of your own to lessen the pain you feel.

Duly noted, and well said. Thoughts and prayers for you and your kids. They need you more now than they ever did before. Just stay focused on that, and show them what a real father is…there can be no other substitute for you.

18

I’m in the midst of this now and man is this a hard thread to read.

Belrix may I email you or are you just not up to it? Understood quite easily if you are not.

:frowning:

Cartooniverse

19

Sure, not sure what help I can be but you’re welcome. I’ve enabled my board email settings. If you search threads started by me, there’s quite a history of semi-self-pitying threads on this board, too.

20

I’m so sorry.

I’ve read many of your threads and come away with the impression that you are a genuinely caring, responsible man. You deserve so much better.

I think your ex threw away a good marriage. One of these days, she may even realize what she’s done. Won’t happen for a while, though.

Your children will come to understand by watching your actions that you are a man of character. I wish you peace and happiness in your current relationship.