The town of Lead SD is pronounced the second way: the name is a mining term for a metal vein in the rock, which, in that case, has nothing to do with the soft grey element.
WRONG and BROUGHT are thrice removed opposites.
wrong/right/left/brought
They have EXACTLY THE SAME vowel sound at the end: “gree”.
I’ve never heard “angry” and “hungry” not rhyming with “tree.” I’m still confused.
[QUOTE=RickJay;20087411
The Old English for avian animals was “fugol,” from whence we get “fowl.”.[/QUOTE]
“From whence” is redundant.
Technically, but,
“From whence at pleasure thou mayst come and part.”
Shakespeare, Sonnet 48
And then there’s verdigris, which has exactly the same ending as angry, hungry and pedigree… and lots of other words.
That’s why poets get licences.
They don’t in any UK dialect/accent I’ve ever heard. Brummie is quite close though.
You can have quite a lot of “had” in a row, and it makes sense as a sentence. It needs punctuation when written or intonation when spoken.
James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher
We raise “cows and pigs” but eat “beef and pork” because the Norman conquerors of England who were doing the eating spoke Old French, while the lowly farmers doing the raising spoke old English.
FTFY
I really wish we wouldn’t teach kids that letters are vowels. ⟨w⟩ is a letter. /w/ is a glide that the letter w often denotes but often does not. Kindergarten could have been so much less confusing.
Although I think what threw me off the most back then was Mrs. W’s attempt to squish our vowel phonology into five vowels, each with a long and short version. Never mind that it’s pretty damn obvious to any 5-year-old that the sounds we’re saying don’t fit that.
I don’t think “angry” and “hungry” rhyme with “tree,” but it’s not because the vowel sounds are different, it’s because if you have a two-syllable word with the stress on the first syllable, both vowel sounds have to match for it to count as a rhyme. In other words, “angry” and “hungry” don’t rhyme with each other either, but “hungry” more-or-less rhymes with “plum tree” (the consonant sounds aren’t a perfect match, but at least they’re close, and the vowels are the same).
“Pedigree” doesn’t rhyme with “angry” or “hungry” either, but again, it’s not because the final vowel sound is different, it’s because the stress patterns are different. “Pedigree” is a dactyl and the other two words are trochees.
I once rhymed “Poseidon” with “to ride on” in a Limerick in the fifth grade. Got a star on my paper. Particularly since half the class either failed to grasp the form, or plagiarized something.
:dubious: <– me. “Ang-rye?” “hun-grye?”
I don’t know where you are from, but angry, tree, hungry, bee, degree, free, and pedigree all end just the same to me.
I was going to argue that “pedigree” is way more common that “verdigris,” but now I’m realizing that “degree” is even more common. I should use that word as my third word.
Warning, poetry talk to follow!
Angry and hungry are trochees. They have a stressed syllable followed by unstressed.
Pedigree is a dactyl. One stressed syllable followed by two unstressed. In actual practice in writing in meter, the second unstressed syllable will often be promoted so that it could be used in iambic pentameter or (much rarer) trochaic meter. (While dactylic meter was THE meter in Greek, it’s pretty rare in modern or even modern-ish English poetry. Yes, there is the double dactyl, but doggerel is another beast.)
So, no. Most poets would likely not rhyme angry/hungry and pedigree. They end with the same sound, but not the same stress (because of promotion). You need both for a rhyme, generally speaking.
Since it was brought up:
A masculine rhyme must rhyme the final syllable, which must be stressed. dove/above believe/bereave confess/address (what you do to a person or a letter, not what you look up on a map)
A feminine rhyme begins with a stressed syllable and at least one unstressed following syllable. Higgledy/Piggledy measuring/treasuring funny/bunny
An identity is a rhyme that has at least one exact sound and stress syllable shared between two words. Sometimes called rime riche. lighted/delighted
Sometimes people will call homophones identities. cite/site/sight
OK, here’s a fact about the translation of the bible into English that probably got an Aramaic saying wrong, and started a long tradition about the career of Joseph.
There was an expression in Aramaic: "Only the carpenter con of a carpenter could explain such a puzzling situation (about a riddle or question in a text). The word used to translate “carpenter” was “tekton” in Greek, a word for a generic builder, but the Aramaic, when it pops up in other sources does seem to support “carpenter.”
So, when Jesus returns to Galilee after wandering around Judah as an itinerant preacher, and has picked up a few tricks, goes back to Galilee, and they doubt him. They say something puzzling about the carpenter son of a carpenter, and probably in the original language said something like "Is this Jesus, the son of Mary who ran off to be a hippie come back to preach to us with supposed authority? What a strange situation. Who could explain his (literal, not spiritual) transformation? Only the Carpenter, son of a carpenter could do it. It got screwed up when the Greeks wrote the the gospels but was still a muddle. it got further removed from the original in an attempt to make sense of it.
But there you are, a very old, and probably authentic story, when you dust away the effects of time, and evidence of Jesus using Aramaic as his vernacular.
I am aware they do not rhyme, except in doggeral, where you can play along with meter and syllabificaltion.
I DID NOT CLAIM THEY RHYMED! I just said they all ended in gry/gree. Anyway, I’ve moved on to “angry, hungry, and degree” as my trio.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you did. The word rhyme was being bandied about.
The letter P represents three different phonemes in English, but English speakers cant hear the difference. Speakers of some languages can.
Tear off a little inch-long strip of paper, and put it just in front of your lips and say “pin” and “spin” and “nip”. When you say “pin” you blow out a strong puff of air,and a much weaker puff when you say “spin” and none at all when you say “nip”. But to an English speaker, they all sound the same.
As for the angry-pedigree distinction, one ee is much longer than the other. In English, that does not constitute a distinct phoneme, but in many languages it does, the same way English regards the distinction between “could” and “cooed”. The fact that English does not recognize a phonetic distinction does not mean that one does not empirically exist.
Some native English speakers pronounce the ‘ng’ the same in “finger” and “singer”, and some don’t. Some speakers pronounce “brood” and “brewed” the same, some don’t. That distinction is more obvious in “news” and “canoes”.
These are identities for me, so I’m not sure what distinction you’re pointing out.