It seemed as if this was getting the “How can Donald Trump win” thread off topic so I started this thread.
I don’t anticipate there will be violence on the scale of 1968 but it is already clear there will be major protests by groups protesting US policy regarding the Israeli/Gaza conflict.
Multiple groups have already said they will protest. There have been lawsuits filed contesting the routes protest groups will be allowed to follow. It is no guarantee this will turn violent but the Chicago Police Department has a lousy record when it comes to dealing with non-white protesters. I also have concerns about what could happen when pro-Palestinian groups encounter pro-Israel groups that are likely to show up. It could get rough very quickly and CPD has a track record for cracking heads and sorting things out later.
Republicans have been told that Democrats are not just political rivals, but actual enemies and traitors to the rightful rulers, and thus anything is allowed to bring down the usurpers. The problem isn’t the ones that are iffy about the whole situation-The problem is the True Believers that remain, the ones that will try to create enough turmoil to let their masters slip in.
The bad actors are what I am concerned about, among the protesters and in CPD.
You may be right and the new policies put in place may keep things calm.
I will continue to see potential conflict between pro-Gaza protesters and pro-Israel counter protesters as a possibility. A few well placed provocateurs could make things get ugly rather quickly. And opportunistic looters will be given a great deal of attention as well.
Maybe none of these things would slow the momentum Harris is currently experiencing but I remain concerned.
I think that a violent attack on pro-Israeli counter protesters would greatly benefit the GOP and the Russian government. It would not surprise me if such an event occurs.
I’m just going to re-quote something that @Kolak_of_Twilo posted in another thread, quoting from an article they posted there regarding the planned protests at the DNC:
We just feel really strongly that we have to send the message that … we deserve better than to choose between the lesser of two evils every election; to have things to actually vote for, not just voting because they’re not the other guy.
And as I said there, what a bunch of morons! They may “feel really strongly” about whatever the hell they want, but these protests run the risk of giving the whole DNC convention a black eye and setting back the Harris campaign which is precariously trying to make gains over the potential of electing the worst calamity to every befall this nation.
It may be the end of Palestinians in Gaza, more oppression than ever in the West Bank, not to mention the end of Ukraine, the beginning of Russian hegemony in the region, and a serious thread to democracy in the US itself as the tyranny of Project 2025 starts to manifest. If this is what the pro-Palestinian groups want, protests that undermine the positive impact of the convention and the Harris-Walz campaign are just the way to achieve it. Narrow-minded unthinking morons!
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I have to believe that the Harris campaign is very aware of the danger of a messy convention and thus conclude they have reached out to these groups to let them know their concerns are being heard and request minimum disruption.
I’m certain you are correct that the Harris campaign is aware of the dangers of a messy convention. However, the pro-Gaza protesters “concerns” involve all funding being cut off to Israel. Immediately. Whether that is a good thing or not is a subject for another thread but it is something they will not get from a Biden, Harris or Trump Administration.
@wolfpup quoted above the relevant part of the article I linked in the other thread. They sound to me to be more interested in sending a message to the Democrats than anything else. Choosing the lesser of two evils is something they are saying they will no longer settle for.
I also saw this morning on WGN the organizers are expecting 100K people to come to Chicago to protest. It only takes a few bad actors mixed in a crowd that size to cause trouble. And I will again say, I don’t see it going well if these protesters come in contact with pro-Israel counter protesters.
I’m not saying this will turn violent but there is a greater than zero chance it could. And CPD does not have a track record of being patient or gentle in situations such as this.
You have to admit that, at least on the surface, “refusal” to prevent genocide is a pretty bad thing and more than enough justification to seriously question someone’s moral compass.
I’ll also note that someone on this board, I forget who, was convinced that Trump would win re-election on the back of violence at the DNC, which they didn’t see as preventable. I don’t know what they think now, but it certainly seems like the circumstances have changed; at the least, protestors can at least reasonably hope that Harris would do something different and/or that she would break from her boss.
That is my concern as well. I think its easy for a protest movement to become more about protesting than about getting achievable results. Once the Democratic party becomes the enemy it is easy to view concessions by them as being too little or lies, or to move the goal posts and up the demands.
Here is their list of demands. Most of what they are requesting are supported by the party but aren’t achievable without getting more Democrats in congress which their activities are making more difficult.
I think Harris could damper their enthusiasm for chaos by meeting with the leaders of the group and discussing their concerns. She doesn’t have to agree to their “demands.” And they can still march in the streets. But maybe they’ll realize that the Democrats are not merely the lessor of two evils.
I will note that LQGBT+ rights they advocate for would be unlikely to gain much traction in a free and independent Palestine. (certainly non-existent if Hamas regained power, but I assume they don’t favor that)
I’m sympatric to their concerns. In my younger days I participated in 4 or 5 large demonstrations against Israel and in favor of Palestinian rights. Our marches were all peaceful. No counter protests to speak of.
I’m now wondering whether the Trump campaign, which is currently desperate for any way to turn things around and has absolutely zero ethics, might send in rabble-rousers to stir things up and promote violence. Add that into the mix, and I become much less concerned about the CPD not being “patient or gentle”. Troublemakers inciting violence should be promptly arrested.
I was hoping that Harris’s instincts for putting on a good show that she’s demonstrated so far would make this a memorable event that would give the campaign a big boost. The protestors would be counterproductive to everything including their own cause, and I kindly invite them to go to hell.
ETA: What I’m seeing here reminds me of some large super-militant unions. I’ve been accused of being “anti-union” which I absolutely am not. What I’m opposed to is – if I may coin a term – the irrationality of collective militancy, where the extremism of militant organizations drives them to ultimately act against their own self-interest, weakens their allies, and turns the public against them.
I did a bit of a double take on that too. As for their opinion on Hamas they are strategically silent. I suspect that their supporters are a mixed bag as far as that goes.
Reading their site further, I am a bit concerned that no where do they make any reference to the march being peaceful and to discouraging violence or destruction of property. The closest thing I found was a list of items prohibited by the secret service in a secure area around the convention, and a mention in their request for permits that they want to hold a “family friendly demonstration accessible to all.”
Instead I saw the following:
We refuse to be pacified by Democratic Party leaders making empty references to justice while ignoring or opposing the demands of the people’s movements. We will not maintain a false peace domestically while our tax dollars are funding genocide and war abroad. We will continue to fight until we achieve true equality.
That’s just great. I knew a few people like that in my protesting days. They didn’t seem to care that much about actually achieving their goals. But they did feel very important and self-righteous.
Their position statement is naive and misinformed. The Democrats may have failed to pass abortion protections in Congress, but I don’t think it was for lack of trying or leadership.
The Democratic Party is complicit in the surging right-wing attacks on women, workers, and the LGBTQ+ community. In spite of their lip service to the women’s and LGBTQ+ movements, the Democratic Party has not backed their words with actions.
As Democrats use reproductive and LGBTQIA+ issues to pinkwash the U.S.-funded Israeli genocide in Gaza, their economic policies put women, LGBTQIA+, and disabled folks in the U.S. at a disproportionate risk of harm and exploitation.
Since Roe v. Wade was overturned by the ultra-conservative Supreme Court in June 2022, Democrats have failed to fulfill campaign promises of codifying the right to abortion. As a result, Republican-controlled state governments have carried out a coordinated campaign to eliminate women’s and LGBTQIA+ rights and criminalize reproductive healthcare across the country.
We demand that the Democratic Party act to defend women’s, reproductive, and LGBTQIA+ rights!
Exactly the point I was trying to make above. “Feeling” important, “feeling” self-righteous, and being directly counter-productive to their own interests in exactly what these fools have succumbed to.
