Potty training problems

In My Humble Opinion
1

My son is going to be 4 years old this August, and he’s still not potty trained. He’ll wear a pull-up for his day care teacher, and even sit on the potty at her house (but not produce any potty), all willingly, but refuses to do anything for me.

He knows full well what’s happening when he poops and pees. He grabs himself, and squats a little, then asks for dry pants. When I try to catch him before he starts, he runs. And runs. Giggling the entire time. And doesn’t stop until I’m too out of breath to chase him, then proceeds to do his business and ask for dry pants.

I’ve managed to corral him into the bathroom many times, but at the first mention of sitting on the potty, pottying in the potty, or any other word that sounds remotely like “potty”, and he’s out the door at a full speed run, and won’t come near the bathroom again until he’s gone in his pants.

I’ve tried prizes. I’ve tried stickers, new Elmo videos, cookies, candy, trips to the store for a new toy, and all I’ve discovered is that bribing does not work on this child. He doesn’t seem to connect the prizes with anything potty-related, really, and no matter how much I play up the prize with enthusiasm, the potty is still the enemy.

I’ve tried picking his squirmy butt up and sitting it on the potty myself, and he’ll sit there just fine if he’s got pants on, but when I do the same thing with his bare bottom, he practically jumps straight from the toilet to the hallway and he’s off running again. He won’t pee or poop while naked, though, he’ll wait until he has pants on.

I’ve thought of just letting him go naked and see if he’ll make his own way to the potty, since I know damn well he knows that’s what it’s for, but I don’t know how well that would work, considering I take him to daycare at 7:00 am, 15 minutes after he wakes up, and I work until 5:00 pm, at which point I pick him up and go home. Does anyone else have any experience using this method in only a few short hours in the evenings? I’m thinking it would have to be an all-day every-day thing to work, but I haven’t tried it yet, so I don’t know.

I’m strictly avoiding spanking, time-outs, or any other sort of punishment for anything potty-related, because something tells me that will only make this whole situation worse, and make it take twice as long, if not longer. I don’t want him to connect anything negative to the pottying experience.

I cannot think of a single thing that has happened in or around the toilet that would make him scared of it, either. He loves to flush it, and waves (and says) good-bye to the water, same as he does in the tub. He loves being in the bathroom, whether it be for taking a bath, brushing his teeth, or flushing the toilet for someone else.

I’ve read the articles, watched the Nanny shows, and pretty much all I hear is “Sticker rewards on posters and calendars and put their name in lights and sing and dance and have a potty party!!!” That’s fine and dandy, but it only works for kids that it works for. Mine doesn’t respond to it.

So basically, the only things I haven’t tried are any form of punishment, complete absence of pants, and strapping him to the toilet until something comes out and then dancing about it.

HELP ME PLEASE!!!

2

I’m not a parent, but it seems that 4 is awfully old not to be trained. Is he looking forward to kindergarten? I’d say telling him that only big boys go to big boy school, and big boys use the toilet. (I have an irrational hatred of the word “potty”)

When it came time for my brother to be trained, my mother said to him “You’re too big for diapers. From now on you’ll use the toilet.” He never had an accident, not even at night. He wasn’t 3 yet, but my mother had him, my 18 mo old sister, and twins on the way. 4 under the age of three.

StG

3

I’m not claiming to be an expert about this, because I didn’t really have trouble with any of my three. We did try the oldest in the summer before he turned two, because I wanted to just put him into training pants, and I thought that would work better in the warm weather. We tried that for a couple of weeks, but he obviously wasn’t ready for it. No progress at all. So I waited a couple of months, and then he seemed to get the idea better. We did have one odd interaction in a public restroom, when I knew he had to go, but he kept wanting to get down from the toilet. I ran through the entire list of family members: “Try one more time for Grandma” “Try once for Uncle Bob” He finally did poop, and that seemed to do it. I guess he got the idea.

What I really came in here for, was to ask how soon after he wets or dirties himself you change the pants. I don’t mean to suggest anything extreme, but maybe if you left him in them for just a little while, until he gets a bit uncomfortable, would help him learn that he doesn’t want that anymore.

Or maybe let it go for a while now, until he doesn’t think it’s a game anymore, and then try again.? Right now it sounds as if he’s enjoying the power.

4

I second the kindergarten routine. You can’t go to kindergarten if you can’t use the toilet. The problem with this, of course, is that there has to be follow-through–you would really have to keep him out of K for another year if he refused–but then, I’m pretty sure that schools really wouldn’t allow him in.

I had a friend who did this with her twin boys; they were dying to go to pre-school, and she told them they had to be potty-trained first. Worked like a charm; they just hadn’t been motivated before.

I certainly agree with your no-negativity approach; some kids get issues about it and take forever. It’s important to let him make the decision; it’s a control thing, I bet, and he’s not going to allow you to force him.

5

I’d ditch the pull-ups. They’re pseudo-diapers, as he fully understands by his age. A heavy load is a lot less cozy in a pair of underwear–albeit more work for you for a time. I second the delaying cleanup as well. Not for hours, but just long enough that he gets uncomfortable.

Does he have a favorite book? With mine, we’d have toilet time every hour or two where I’d read him his favorite book over and over again for about ten minutes or so. If he didn’t go, no biggie, but he had to try. Go in the bathroom, lock the door so he can’t escape and wait him out. At this point, it sounds like he’s turned it into a contest of wills and you just have to commit yourself to being more stubborn than him.

6

I guess I would say that since his pottying experience is already pretty negative, you haven’t got much to lose by going the coercive route. I don’t mean spanking him or punishing him, but dangermom (are you two related?) makes a good suggestion. There may be things he wants to do that you can say are only for big boys who go on the toilet, etc.

Good luck. For me, toilet training has been the single most frustrating thing about having small kids.

7

I agree with ditching the pull ups.

If you must use something Kooshies makes a pair of fleece-lined training pants that are also water-resistant. The advantage is the child feels very wet or very dirty.

Talk to the daycare. Have extra clothes to change him into at daycare but do away with the pull-ups. It’s just too easy for them.

8

Oh Ugh.

I’m not a mom m’self, but am very close to my aunts and my young cousins. We had one in the family who was a pain in the ass to potty train. He was also insanely bright. So we out-manipulated him.

We explained that only babies do that stuff. He still thought it was a game. So everyone in the family pulled a “Ok, then you’re a baby, because Babies wear diapers” and started withdrawing his big boy privileges.

“It’s bedtime/naptime. Babies nap at this time of day.”
“You can’t go play with Cousin Y, they don’t let babies play on those play structures.”
“You can’t watch Video X, because it’s for big boys, not for babies.”
“That toy is for big boys, not babies…”
“Can’t go to nursery school this week - they don’t take babies.”
“Oh! Look! Backpack and lunchboxes, like the big boys who go to kindergarten get! Too bad you’re still a baby and don’t get to go to school next year.”
“Nope, can’t stay up, babies need to go to bed now. Yep, Cousin X gets to stay up and she’s younger than you. But she’s not a baby anymore. Sorry!”

Evil? Yes, yes it was. It took two days. There were LOTS of tears of frustration. FINALLY, he screamed out: “I’m NOT A BABY.”

And that was the end of it.

I’m sure we all scarred him for life. :smiley: He’s going into highschool next year, top of his class, brilliant boy.

9

Our son was not completely trained when he was 4, and the preschool would not allow any kids in diapers. For whatever reason he would pee in the toilet, but wanted to hang on to his poop.
After all else failed we took away the pull-ups and told him we would spank him if he soiled himself. I don’t think he believed us, and the first time he pooped himself we spanked him - hard. That’s all it took.
But you ruled out the only thing that worked for us.

10

I third the kindergarten approach. I’m working that with my soon-to-be-three daughter but with preschool. She’s not ready yet so we are going to back off for a month or two, then commit.

Am I the only one that opened the thread solely because of the title and poster’s name?
One of the best combinations ever!

11

You’ve turned it into a game. This is why he will sit on the potty for the day care teacher but not you.

In the evening, when you get home from day care, give him LOTS of water/juice/milk to drink then strip him down. If he still hasn’t gone potty after an hour, sit him on it and read to him or watch a video or find some other way to entertain him. Keep him there for 15 minutes. If he goes, reward him with something. After 15 minutes, let him up for a while (1/2 hour?) asking him every 10 minutes if he needs to go. After 1/2 hour, put him back on the potty for another 10 minutes or so. If he still hasn’t gone, put him in a diaper and try again the next night.

I’ll also second the ideas that punishment is not going to help and that you should leave him in soiled underwear for awhile.

12

I agree with everyone who said ditch the Pull-ups and put him in regular underwear. They’ll more uncomfortable when they’re wet, and the Pull-Ups are making it too easy for him. They’re like diapers and wick the wetness away, so he doesn’t care that he’s peeing in them. Maybe try cloth training pants, so he’s not dripping all over the floor - plus it’s hold the wetness closer to him and make him more aware that he’s wet.

He’s also old enough to change his pants himself. Put the clean pants in a drawer low enough for him to reach, and tell him if he wets himself, he has to change his wet pants by himself.

BiblioCat, mom and preschool teacher

13

For a second, I thought I wrote the OP. We’re having the exact same issues.

I’m bookmarking this thread. I really am.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Robin

14

Neither of mine trained until 3 1/2. We tried everything - bribes, stickers (my favorite “peeing for presents”) Nothing.

With my son, it was a timing issue. He needed to be 100% sure that he was never going backwards. So he waited until he had complete control and one day said “Mom, I’m ready for underwear.”

My daughter and I had a power struggle. She enjoys being “the baby.” For her, we took her to her peditrician who gave her the big girl and baby talk. Then said to ME, “babies wear diapers, they don’t wear pullups or underpants. She is old enough and knows enough that she is making the choice to be a baby, follow through on her choice” All the pullups in our house went, to be replaced with DIAPERS. She chose, if she used her pants, she wore diapers. When she went in the potty, she got underwear (not training pants, underwear). Pullups were enough like underwear to be rewarding (and training pants and the rest - they WERE underwear, and she didn’t care if she soiled them - her goal of being in underwear being accomplished by wearing them - my goal of having her use the toilet was not her goal). We had a week of tantrums while she tested the system, then went to underwear.

It sounds like you are in the power struggle phase.

First, make sure there isn’t a physical or emotional reason for the delay. And consult with your own pediatrician. And remember that eventually, they train - no one goes to college in diapers (well, barring a physical issue).

15

That’s what I did with my son, and it worked like a charm. Your son is playing a game, play back.

16

My thoughts. I agree wholeheartedly with the “ditch the pullups” crowd. My 11 year old is still in diapers due to his various levels of disability. My younger son was a little past his third birthday, and was easily bribed with Pez and the following:

Take a long weekend. Surely you get some paid time off. Take a Friday and a Monday. No daycare. On Friday morning, as soon as the child wakes up, the pullup goes (and you throw away the rest of the package!!!), and “big boy underwear” go on (I got my son some Buzz Lightyear ones, as he would not dream of peeing on Buzz.) Throw some towels on the furniture. DO NOT allow yourself to be manipulated into putting a pullup on him! Have plenty of extra big boy undies available, but not where the child can see them. If he wets or soils, let him sit in it, on the floor , for a little while. Ten minutes with peed pants will not ruin his skin. If it makes your life easier, tell him he is not to use the upholstered furniture again until he is using the toilet. Don’t expect to get much of anything else done all weekend. Since he’s 4, you may want to forgo the training potty, and just have him use the regular toilet.

I’d be willing to bet he goes to daycare on Tuesday with big boy undies.

FTR, my BIL’s daughter was nearly 7 before she’d poop in the toilet, because her mother let her get away with the pullup nonsense. It was only after she was alone with her dad for 3 days straight that she started using the toilet every time, and wiped herself without question. He let her poop in her frilly pink panties, and he let her sit in it (and smell it!) for half an hour. She’d had just about enough.

Good luck. Potty training sucks. But, you gotta be the strong one. Even though, short term, it’s easier to be sweet.

17

I assume he won’t urinate or poop in the potty? If so, I would split the efforts and focus on only one of the two – probably urinating. Since warm weather is here, I recommend having him go without pants each day and all day. Pump him full of liquids and keep the potty seat nearby. Spend as much time as possible outside in the backyard (if you have one) so when there are accidents it is really easy to clean up and won’t pile on an performance anxiety. When he has to wear pants, dump the pull-ups and have him change himself.

I also second the advice to avoid punishments. Continue to keep it positive.

Kids try to push the limits farther with moms than other adults. This might be the case her since he’ll try a bit harder for the day school teacher. This is pretty normal too. You and he have probably established some patterns for potty training, so take some ideas from this thread and try to make a clear, clean break in training. A way of saying, “we’re starting over and the old patterns and negotiations are no longer applicable”.

And remember that this is not a rare situation at all (already there are others in this very thread with the same problem). Keep the guilt and frustration out of your head since you’ll need all of your energy to be positive and motivated.

18

You guys are awesome. Thanks so much. :slight_smile:

I know almost 4 is pretty old to not be potty trained, but these problems have been escalating for over 2 years now. I’ve tried several of the things I mentioned over the course of weeks and months, tried something else, went back to what I tried first, and on and on.

He can’t go to Kindergarten for another year anyway, kids have to be 5 years old within a certain period of time into the school year. Sometime in September, I think.

I don’t get paid time off until I’ve worked for Doc for at least a year, then I get a week. Right now, we’ve got two employees planning to quit, which leaves me and one other person. When we get more people hired, I should be able to take a 4 day weekend. For now, I work 6 days a week.

I’ll definitely be trying the ditch the pull-ups idea. Even with the “wetness liner” ones, he treats them the same as diapers, laying down for me to change them by ripping the sides open. When I refuse to change his pants and tell him to change them himself, he screams like a banshee and will just lay on the floor until I (bad, I know…) give in and do it. He changes his own pants with no problem at all when he’s at daycare, but home is a whole different battleground.

I’m also going to try the baby routine. He has movies, like Ice Age and Monsters Inc, that he watches all the time that aren’t for babies, and toys that aren’t for babies, and lots of other things I could work with.

This is nothing like the bottle and pacifier battles…they disappeared one day, there were two days of screaming fits, and it was over and forgotten. If only it were that easy.

19

I’m curious - why the near universal recommendation against punishment?
I’m certainly not advocating indiscriminate hitting, but I’ve got no reason to believe the occasional swat on the butt permanently scarred my kids, and in certain situations it certainly caught their attention.
(Sorry for the hijack. I’m sure it has been done before on the boards, and it is many years since I administered the last of my few spankings.)

20

Dinsdale, that’s obviously an incredibly hot-button issue that could readily derail this thread, but I will say, as a general observation, that it’s a generational thing, as well as an ideological thing. Parents these days, unless they adhere to a much more conservative style of parenting, tend not to use corporal punishment, ever. It’s gone out of fashion for whatever reason, and parents tend to follow the mindset of the day.