Is ICE even conducting operations in the proximity of this showdown or is the guard just being deployed where the protestors are?
ETA: Glad I’m not the only one wondering about this.
Well, no, not “especially” weekend warriors. All armies are like this.
For an army to turn against its nominal master is incredibly unusual and requires the government to have some sort of legitimate rival to national authority, something the USA doesn’t have.
There’s an utterly massive gray area you’re ignoring. Here’s what’s much more likely, based on my military experience:
“General, we’re here at 5th and Flatbush.”
“The SECDEF has ordered us to engage the enemy.”
“Aye sir.”
5 minutes.
“Report.”
“Sir, no enemy found so far.”
“Very well.”
Another ten minutes.
“SECDEF has ordered us to engage the protesters.”
“I’m having trouble hearing you sir.”
“Understood. I’ve got a tech unit on the way to assist with comms.”
Another ten minutes.
“I’ve been informed the tech unit has arrived.”
“Yes, we’ve got a new radio, thank you sir.”
“Have you engaged the enemy?”
“We haven’t found the enemy, sir.”
“SECDEF has ordered us to engage the violent protesters.”
“Aye sir.”
Five minutes.
“Report.”
“Sir, we found a protester who was swinging a sign around rather carelessly and we successfully de-escalated the situation.”
“Well done, Major.”
And, scene.
Yes-
Federal agents conducted a series of immigration sweeps across Los Angeles on Friday, prompting anger and resistance from onlookers and immigrant rights groups that have braced for this type of action for months.
But the main raids were in-The conflict in Paramount, a city of about 56,000 residents south of L.A., attracted national attention after protests near a Home Depot extended into Saturday. Those protests appear to have begun when ICE agents were spotted in the area.
But the protests are not just in that little town where the main raids occurred.
If there are no raids in Downtown LA, today, the answer is “no”.
How is this not a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act? 
I thought National Guard troops could only be used as law enforcement or diaster respone when operating under state authority .
Fuckin A. The blood will be on tiny orange ketchup stained hands.
I found a screenshot of a Republican objecting to Biden using the National Guard for something. She said it was an attack on our liberty and should never happen.
Speaking for myself, now that trans people are illegal I hope he gets to the LGBQ and + people soon. The deportation of the lesser races is off to a great start.
America will be great again!
Sieg heil!
This just isn’t a realistic portrayal of how things will go down. Protesters are not uniformly passive and nonviolent when the other side is being purposely antagonistic. I was at the George Floyd protests in Portland when Trump sent the goons, and I saw first-hand what happens.
There is not going to be some hugely excessive order like “go beat on those peaceful protesters.” It ramps up slowly, with each command seeming perfectly reasonable to the grunts on the ground. “Clear that intersection,” “move that group away from the fence.”
In a powder keg situation like that, some of the protesters will react. They will throw water bottles or rocks, or swing a sign at an officer. Now the troops take stronger action, and the protesters do too. Each escalation seems perfectly logical (and necessary, even) to the troops.
It doesn’t matter how peaceful the protesters plan on being. A small minority are not there to be peaceful in the first place, and a larger minority will be pushed past their limits despite their original intent.
In no scenario do the troops lay down their weapons and disengage on their own.
That’s possible too, but that’s more like Kent State. These protests often disperse on their own.
But we’ll see. Our speculation is pretty meaningless.
In Portland, it didn’t really reach the “shoot the protesters” level except in one (a few?) isolated cases. But we were routinely tear gassed for pushing on fences, and people ended up bloody from the troops bum-rushing us to clear streets.
Yes, I hope it deescalates in L.A. before people get hurt. But if it does, it won’t be because the individual NG troops develop a conscience.
Further, every one of these commanders, from the units themselves up to generals, were and are probably doing a lot of thinking, reading, and discussing about how to handle various scenarios. Many if not most of these folks are thoughtful and intelligent and have no desire to be part of a massacre.
During the George Floyd protests in Philly, police had a large group of peaceful protesters surrounded. The cops were on three sides. Behind the protestors was a concrete wall. It would have made sense for the cops to communicate over megaphones or speakers that the protesters were surrounded and they needed to disperses peacefully.
Instead the cops used tear gas.
I have zero faith in the consciences of the National Guard. Why should I?
Goddamn, I hope that’s sarcasm.
Oh. sorry.
Yes. I am a left wing bleeding heart liberal Jewish guy. Trump is basically doing everything I warned people he would do before the election. The future looks bloody and bleak.
People join the NG for very, very different reasons than those who join the police.
But faith doesn’t matter; we’ll see what happens.
I probably could have deduced that from context clues, but I don’t think we’ve ever really interacted for me to get a sense of that.
Plus, I’m sleepy.
“Bull rushing,” a police term taken from football
I’ve never heard “bull rush” but “bum rush” is a known phrase. It’s in various dictionaries.
I think everyone can picture the scenario, so let’s not derail the thread.