Practicality of jihadi intentions?

Great Debates
1

There are a number of jihadi groups out there - Muslims groups forcefully agitating (politically and/or militarily) to end decadent Westernism, Zionism, and the oppression of true Muslim values, and seeking to establish a world of righteousness, justice, and piety to God’s law (although not necessarily His religion - non-Muslims would also have to obey God’s law but be free to follow their erroneous religion).

Most of them believe, sincerely, that God is on their side and, in fact, it is their duty to wage war against infidels - including wayward Muslims.

However, the realities of world politics don’t seem to be going their way. Europe will not want to fall to Muslim rule, and neither will the West. Many Muslims are becoming progressive and liberal, opposing the ultraconservatism of jihadi groups. (Non-jihadi ultraconservative groups aren’t a threat because they’re not agitating as forcefully as jihadi groups.) These warmongering groups are a wee minority in the large, huge world of Islam. Yet, they don’t seem to be stopping or want to stop.

My question here - at last - is: how practical are the goals and objectives of these jihadi groups? If they’re not practical, why haven’t they noticed yet?

Lest this turn into a flame-war, please keep comments civil, academic, and objective. Anyone’s welcome to reply - no expertise or qualifications needed.

WRS - may the Above establish peace amongst us all now. Amen.

2

Their objectives are not practical. They live in a kind of dream world wherein the end is nigh.

There is a hadith where Mohammed said that the time between now (at the time of Mohammed speaking) and the end of the world is as short as the distance between his two fingers.

Imagine a peace sign, with your index finger and longest finger sticking out. Mohammed said that the time between him living and the end of the world was that short - the distance between the ends of his two fingers.

Now this is just a hadith and most muslims don’t read it quite so literally but the muslims that do read it literally think the end is nigh.

These people live in a highly developed dream world where the caliphate will return, Islam will prosper and dominate, and Jesus will walk the earth again.

They have no fixed time limit for when this will happen - Mohammed just said “soon, very soon”

Now when other looney apocalyptic types like Manson or Jim Jones tell us the end is nigh, they usually give us a date when the end of the world will happen. So that, once this date has passed and nothing happens, we can all point at them and laugh.

The radical, apocalyptic guys (who claim to be muslim) don’t have a specific date though. They just believe that “the end is nigh”.

The problem with believing that the end is nigh (and not having a specific date) is that the end is therefore ALWAYS nigh. There will never be a time when the end is not nigh. So their cult is doomed to forever be a “The End Is Nigh” cult even when the end is not nigh. The end may in fact be 1 million years from now but “End is Nigh” cults are forced to spend the entire intervening time between now and then believing that the end may be tomorrow.

eg the world is 15 billion years old, islam is 1400 years old. The end is probably not nigh.

So, the answer to your question is:

Their goals are not practical but they don’t notice because they are living in a religious dream world. According to muslim theology, muslims will always be victorious in battle as long as they have half the strength of their opponents.

They only need to be half as strong as the enemy and then God will take up the slack and bring them to victory. They will win because God is on their side (as long as they have half the strength of their enemy). They are quite precise about this, if it’s a little bit less than half then they will lose.

If it’s a little bit more than half they will win.

This is just my understanding, Tamerlane may be along later to correct me. I claim no expertise in this area.

But in any case this is the kind of thing the radicals believe. They are a bunch of loons. Almost every muslim I know (and I know quite a lot) thinks that they are loons, even whilst they sympathise with their struggle against American hegemony.

3

hmm

should mention that there are two criteria for muslims to win a war:

  • they have at least half the strength

  • they have right on their side

this second one is the most important. Defining “right” is difficult.

The “half the strength” clause only gets triggered if the “just cause” clause gets triggered first.

If it is not a just cause then you do not have God on your side. So you may lose, even if you have more than half of the enemy’s strength.

It all comes down to defining just cause and this gets defined by fatwa etc.

4

Actually, they do think they can win because our “decadence” will make us lose. They think that terror attacks make us more conciliatory, not more forceful. And sometimes it works. Certain nations back terrorism with impunity and there is virtually no response to it from the victims. Even a weak opponent can beat a strong opponent who won’t fight back.

5

WeRSauron, if you’re talking about all of the Muslim VS other conflicts, like the Palestinians VS Israelis for the “Occupied Territories,” or Pakistan VS India for Kashmir, or Chechnya VS Russia, for example, while those Muslim groups do use terrorist methods, these all seem to be conflicts for specific pieces of land and not world domination as far as I know.
Now, the 9/11 attack, and what seems as the growing trend of Wahhabism, I guess those would be instances of Muslims tring to force their beliefs on the world. And for them I have to agree with Jojo, these are people who take the Koran literally and are, in some ways, kind of living in a dream world. So no, their goals aren’t practical, or achievable, but you better believe that they will keep on trying.

6

It’s not so much world domination as Muslims feeling entitled to every inch of land they may have once owned at one time or another. Bin Laden has specifically mentioned the reconquering of Spain by Christians as one of his beefs with the West.

Sorry, you ain’t gettin’ Spain back.