Pregnant Smokers!!! You make me sick!!!

The BBQ Pit
81

Since the context of the post was a woman in her third-trimester pregnancy (I presumed, and for the sake of this thread and considering her body frame was small except for the very prominent BASKETBALL shape under her breasts), my concern was for her unborn child, but of course, if the woman continued her chain smoking after birth, and if she breastfeeds her baby, the concerns would still be there… for those born from chain-smoking moms who developed OK and no long-term detrimental effects, I’m so very very happy for you, sincerly! But stats don’t come from a vacuum and the risks are high for long-term effects and so for those within that large sample, derives my frustration. And to further clarify, I accept current laws as they may pertain to rights and protections for an unborn child, rights and protections for the pregnant woman, though I’d like to see them improved upon… after all nothing is ever perfect… always room for improvement.

I’m not confusing the two. Only repetitive stupid acts might provoke someone to consider the person doing those acts as “stupid”… proof is in the pudding, right? And if a pregnant woman is a chain smoker, which would suggest no matter how addictive it is, she’s still doing something repeatedly stupid, and negligent considering she’s developing a human life inside of her, well, she must be lacking something (strong will, selflessness) important.

well, my wine is kicking in now, so good night.

pace :slight_smile:

82

In other words;

“You’re starting to live your life the way I think you should, but you’re still fucking it up. I must now make new rules to get you to conform to my way of doing things.”

It must be frustrating. :rolleyes:

83

Good for you, at least I cannot blame you for being a hypocrite for that, but I seldom see threads (or people) pitting women (or adults) that smoke in front of their kids (even when those kids suffer allergies or asthma because of the smoke).

But what we are saying is that so many people smoke that if the detrimental effects were so great and terrible, we would have a lot more sick kids than what we have. And we don’t, and we thrive and survive.

It is not the best thing to do, one shouldn’t start smoking, period. One shouldn’t smoke while pregnant, either. But smoking while pregnant doesn’t automatically translate to the kid having detrimental deffects that will follow him/her throughout life.

Aaaah… different views, then. I consider the whole smoking thing to be “stupid”, not each individual smoking act a stupid one by itself (well, it is, but just because someone smokes that does not mean the person is stupid).

84

My take on this is completely different.

When we decided to adopt, one of the first things I had to get over was that I’d be able to control another woman’s pregnancy, even when the end result of that pregnancy would be my child. As a result, I spent a lot of time researching drinking and smoking, and decided that our bigger risks were prescription drugs, women who didn’t know they were pregnant the first trimester, women with poor prenatal care, and the wonders of someone else’s genetics. It was hard - perhaps the hardest thing about adopting - realizing from the start that you don’t get to keep your kid safe - its in someone else’s hands. We mitigated slightly, only accepting referrals for “healthy” children, chosing to adopt from Korea where women don’t tend to smoke or drink heavily. But we have almost no information on my son’s birthmother or her pregnancy.

No sooner had our son arrived home than I discovered I was three onths pregnant. I’m a social drinker. I’m not a smoker, but I am exposed to second hand smoke on occation. Believing myself incapable of getting pregnant, I wasn’t taking pre-natal vitamins or watching my folic acid. I drink caffiene, eat my steak rare, and at the time owned cats. With a baby at home, I certainly didn’t give our daughter the ideal pregnancy - not nearly enough sleep and not nearly good enough nutrition.

But I have two kids and they are both doing fine. My son is great - I don’t know what his birthmother did or what her genes were like, but she produced a wonderful, healthy, smart, kind kid. And my daughter is also a wonderful, healthy, smart, kind kid (a little prone to a six year old girl’s bossiness and stubborness, but that seems normal when we see her with her friends).

So here is my real problem with a rant like pace’s. Would I prefer it if pregnant women didn’t smoke or drink? Yes. Are rants like this counterproductive to people like me? Oh, yeah. Her body, her baby, her risk. If you are adopting her kid, you can choose to turn down the ones where mom smoked or the ones born with a cleft palate. But trust me, all this ranting and information of “increased risk of this or that” (which is fairly miniscule for smoking, except asthma, which is most cases is pretty controllable) is probably being read by someone with no control and a reason to stress - so knock it the hell off.

85

I’ll go ahead and toss out an anecdote from the other side. My (now 18 year old) daughter was almost 3 months premature. She weighed 2 lbs. 9 oz. and was really, really sick. She was hospitalized for 7 weeks, and diagnosed with Cerebral Palsy at 8 months old. She has struggled with other health issues throughout her life – she had multiple ear and upper respiratory infections as a small child, and still catches just about everything that comes along, she tires easily and is generally what they used to call ‘frail,’ she has struggled with depression and learning disabliities, and she is very, very small (4’9"ish).

I am a non-smoker. A total non-smoker – I’ve never smoked even one single cigarette, not even as a kid. My husband is also a non-smoker and I was a stay-at-home mom during my pregancy and so wasn’t even exposed to second-hand smoke. I was still nursing my son when I got pregnant with my daughter and so never took a drink during my pregnancy, nor any prescription or over-the-counter medications (my son was one of those babies who seems to get a dose of anything I was taking through my breast milk, so I completely abstained from anything while I was nursing him).

And yet, here she is, stomping around on her crutches and wearing size 2 shoes. If I had smoked during my pregnancy, then the smoking would almost certainly have gotten the blame for her prematurity and other health issues – and yet, clearly, she was sick anyway, even in the utter absence of anythign to blame it on.

End of anecdote.

I definately think that pregnant woman ought not smoke. All smokers ought to quit – pregnant and non-pregnant. My son started smoking last year when he joined the Navy and I wish he would quit. But he’s an adult and it’s his own business. He knows the health risks he’s taking and he certainly knows my feelings on the subject – when he asked me what I wanted for Christmas, I told him I wanted him to stop smoking. But I don’t nag him about it and I sure as shit wouldn’t nag a stranger about it.

86

Worthwhile reading – “Substance use during pregnancy: time for policy to catch up with research”

I’ll restate that I am an owner of two day programs for developmentally disabled adults…about 150 clients total. In the history files that we have for each client, about 30% of the clients that we serve had mothers who were heavy smokers/drinkers. The other 70% were genetics or some other factor. Since these guys are adults (mostly 25-65 years of age), the mothers believed back then that smoking and drinking would not harm the baby; but most of them have stated they would have stopped if they had known what we know now about the effects of smoking and drinking for a pregnancy.

After all this, and the current media campaign for pregnant mothers to get checkups early and often and to cut back (or eliminate) smoking and drinking, I do not hold the sympathy for current mothers to be that I do for the mothers of the clients we now care for when misinformation was ruling the day. Knowing this, I would also take the time to tell a smoking or drinking mother-to-be what I know, and that someday down the road…20 years from now, she may be bringing her son/daughter to my program for a tour…hopefully, I will have forgotten her face so I can refrain from saying “I told you so”.

And yeah, those are society’s TAX DOLLARS at work…so $.02 of reciprocating advice ain’t gonna kill any pregnant mom, unlike like those cigs and alcohol could to her or her kid. I used to think that “it’s their business”, but with my current background, I know better than to have that attitude now. And as a taxpayer who knows money is being spent to care for those babies (who become adults eventually) who need additional medical and educational assistance per state resources, I have the right to shed information to someone who may become a burden on the state. That’s why they call it a “societal issue”, right?

87

Said **BabaBooey **: “I don’t see how the abortion/it’s her body arguments apply. It’s not going to be her body in 0-9 months. Maybe smoking affects the fetus, maybe it doesn’t, but if I can have the courtesy to not smoke around children, let alone infants and pregnant women, the expecting damn well better be able to do the same…”

Bah! I stand by what I said. Think what you will.

88

Bullshit. Unless, of course, you also feel free to “shed information” on *anyone * who’s in danger of becoming a “burden on the state”. Do you walk up to people lifting heavy objects and educate them about the evil of back injuries and their patriotic duty not to collect disability payments? Out of curiosity, do you plan to drink the Kool-Aid if the alternative is to collect Social Security?

We all pay taxes for things we’d rather not. Paying your taxes doesn’t give you some special “right” to harass a pregnant smoker.

89

Not really related, only wanted to point out that cats are not as bad for pregnant women as they’re portrayed to be. Handling raw meat is the most common way to get toxoplasmosis. Cats only shed toxoplasmosis for about two weeks, indoor cats probably haven’t been exposed to the virus (and those that have and got resistant probably have the antibodies), and if the woman has had the cat for long enough, she probably has antibodies to toxoplasmosis already circulating. On the other hand, if cleaning cat litter is something the other person in the couple can do, then yea, go ahead… one less chore to do! :wink:

90

Double Bullshit. You can’t be serious comparing a person who injures themself for making their own decision to lift heavy objects to a pregnant mother who imparts medical issues on a child who has no decision on whether or not to take 200+ toxins from cigarrette smoke because of mom’s poor decision-making. And yes, they do become unnecessarily a burden on tax payer dollars. The day programs I operate are from state tax dollars. Neo-natal and NICU costs covered by Medicaid is a burden on the state. Disability and/or Workers Comp (where I definitely have a say what employees can lift or not) are taxes/premium paid for employees/employers that are used by employees/employers. Are you saying that we should have a smoking pregnant mother tax on cigarettes for smoking pregnant mothers to use when they need medical services for their newborns?

Googled: smoking pregnat mothers tax burden…just choose any of those little gems in there.

Another comparison you failed at is that Social Security is there for those who have no choice but to grow old. I can live with paying that. But pregnant mothers who put their habits before their kids by their own choice and then using tax dollars to cover the medical bills because of their selfishness is money that could have been used elsewhere IS AN UNDUE BURDEN.

As for your comment about a special right to harrass pregnant mothers…there’s nothing “special” about it…If I saw anyone harming another (who is helpless to control the situation), you bet I would say (and have said) something (and I certainly able to do it in a non-harrassing manner as needed) to the person who is doing the harming.

91

At what point does use become abuse. When I was pregnant, I got darn sick of well meaning people letting me know what would harm my baby. Those decisions were mine and between me and my OB.

The biggest risk to a fetus and the mother is a car accident - though at least that usually kills them both and doesn’t leave the taxpayer holding the bill. Driving is a choice.

pace has no idea whether he saw a woman light up the one cigarette she allows herself a day after kicking a three pack a day habit, or if she maintained the three pack a day habit. Lots of casual things we do can impact fetus health when done in quantity. Too much vitamin A causes birth defects, as does too little folic acid. But pace isn’t ranting because he saw a pregnant woman eat carrots instead of leafy greens. Poor nutrition is believed to be a factor in half of all birth defects, and is also believed to contribute to childhood cancers. Caffiene and sugar are an endless source of debate on their impact on fetal health, I’ll go out on a limb and say abusing either is not good for mother or baby. Why single out cigarettes and alcohol? I agree both can be abused and cigarettes in particular are a nasty disgusting habit for anyone - pregnant or not.

92

You make great points, Dangerosa, but as you correctly pointed out that Pace only witnessed this once, he/she went off of the notion that no healthy benefits come from smoking a single cigarette, let alone a pack or three. I suppose a vitamin A abuser would be harder to pick out than a smoker, because lots of things contain vitamin A, and it is usually beneficial to any person who ingests it within reason. So, you won’t find anyone being critical about vitamin A abusers (except doctors who monitors those levels…if they even do that at all).

My wife had gestational diabetes with the last two pregnancies, so food and sugar intake was closely monitored…primarily by her because she knew she had to control it for her overall health as well as the babies’. If she ignored the doctor’s recommendations, I would have reminded her of them, but she was pretty good at following them and whatever she ate, I ate the same food in support of her to help her deal with the restrictions. So when I see a pregnant woman smoke, I feel the need to say something for the sake of the baby since it could not speak up for itself. Cigs and alcohol will always be viewed as detrimental to the well being of the baby, where any type of use no matter if it’s her first cig or 60th of day; first shot or 6th shot of liquor, the mother should expect people to approach her with concern.

93

No, the mother should expect to be left the fuck alone, just like everyone else in the world. What are you, a *professional * nosy pain in the ass?

You want to raise awareness, buy some airtime and run a PSA. You have no right to harass individuals whose behavior you disapprove of. A woman does not become subject to your authority, when she gets pregnant.

94

No, the mother should expect to be left the fuck alone, just like everyone else in the world. What are you, a *professional * nosy pain in the ass?

You want to raise awareness, buy some airtime and run a PSA. You have no right to harass individuals whose behavior you disapprove of. A woman does not become subject to your or anyone else’s authority when she gets pregnant.

95

And you may be doing more harm than good.

I had three drinks during my pregnancy. As I recall them, one because I didn’t know I was pregnant. One (maybe two) because my doctor said a glass of wine was less risky than anti anxiety drugs (and anxiety combined with toxemia was risky), the third because some busybody at work invited me out to happy hour with “you can come, even if you can’t drink.” Suddenly, a drink sounded good - partly because I hadn’t had one in months, partly because it had the prohibited air, and partly because I wanted to prove to myself that I - not my fetus (which is now my daughter) nor some busybody at work - controlled my actions during pregnancy. So I went home and drink about half a whiskey coke.

(By the way, I stopped being Christian after an evangelical explained the “right” way to be Christian in much the same pique)

So knowing the risks of gestational diabetes, I’m sure you also go up to strange pregnant women drinking juice and let them know they are putting themselves and their baby at potentially increased risk due to diabetes. Because you wouldn’t do it just to smokers, right?

96

Oh, and I know my behavior wasn’t completely rational. Last I checked, husbands of pregnant wives didn’t spend a lot of time complaining that pregnacy made their wives logical and rational. It makes us emotional, unpredictible, unstable, forgetful, unlogical and prone to weird cravings that MUST be met.

97

I already told you who I am. You just refuse to see from my point of view, with developmentally disabled that I work with, that some of these issues can be avoided if somebody took the time to help inform someone. They can say “Thanks” or “No Thanks”.

There are some folks who don’t watch TV nor listen to radio…even though there are plenty of PSAs already.

You’re right, I have no right to harrass, so I don’t harrass, I explain it to them until they say “Thanks” or “No Thanks.” Stop overreacting about my casual conversation being touted as “harrassment”; it ain’t.

Where the hell are you pulling this from? I never said that she HAD to do what I said! I ain’t the pregnancy police.

98

Doubtful.

The doctor has a point there…medication could in itself be worse, but they both carry some variable (unequal) risk.

And I would say, “Thanks” or “No Thanks”. :wink:

Like I said before, a pregnant woman who drinks a juice (like vitamin A) is more likely to be seen as a beneficial move (unless I personally knew she was diabetic), whereas a pregnant women smoking a cigarette is seen as detrimental, regardless if I’m a doctor or not. That’s why it’s easier to approach the smoker.

;)…within reason.

99

That’s why we refer to PMS as pre-season training. The action isn’t as fierce, but it gives us a chance to prepare for the real battle. :smiley:

100

Yeticus, what do you hope to accomplish by informing a pregnant stranger smoking can harm her child. Do you really think she hasn’t been exposed to this knowledge. Do you think maybe her OB and the OB nurse both asked her? Perhaps friends and relatives have said “you should really try to give up smoking.” And of course, every pregnancy book she picks up will tell her that to. Faced with all this evidence, she still doubts, until a complete stranger walks up to her and gives her the information? “Wow! I didn’t believe my OB, or *What to Expect While You Are Expecting[/] or my sister. But a complete stranger told me and that convinced me to stop!” Do you have that much ego, or do you think she is that dumb? Or maybe you just like the moral superiority? What, exactly, do you hope to accomplish, other than being told to fuck off.

Smoking isn’t a “oh, I forgot” type habit like biting your nails. Unlike your nails, you need to go buy cigarettes or bum them. That is a pretty conscious act. Then, to be caught smoking in public, you need to go to one of six remaining designated smoking areas left in America (I exaggerate). And you have to light up. And if you do this visably pregnant, you know that half the people walking past you are going to throw you dirty looks and a small percentage of them will say something nasty. And yet the woman is chosing to do it anyway - going out of her way, in fact. What difference do you hope to make here?