Nixon/McGovern?
I can’t see any undecideds/swing voters thinking Biden wil be any sorta “wimp” for declining to oink around in the mud with Don.
And Joe Biden thinks he recently chatted with MItterand at a NATO summit. Mitterand was president of France, and died in 1996.
He also told a rambling story about teling Mitterand after he was elected that “America was back!” Then he stumbled over his words for a bit and said, “And Mitterand said…Uh.. said, How long you back for?” Which I don’t think was what he originally wanted to say, because it made no sense. Maybe it was a joke, but it wasn’t delivered that way. Again, Mitterand was long dead when Biden was elected, even as VP. So either he was lying, or confused him with someone else.
That’s not the first time he has said he recently talked with Mitterand. And last year he said that he had recently spoken with Helmut Schmidt of Germany at the G7. Helmut Schmidt died in 2015.
Both men are old, and both are slipping. But Joe Biden is way in front of Trump in that regard. Neither of them should be President.
Hard disagree. That’s going to be a matter of opinion but Trump seems in much deeper decline.
Maybe after trump is really the candidate. The Dems done debate the Repups until the candidates for both parties are settled. And I note that refusing to debate in the GOP primaries hasn’t hurt trump any.
I agree: Trump on the daily makes no sense. He rambles, tells stories about him acing a dementia test, and then follows up with complete nonsense. How often DOES he make sense?
Those of us who remember the Trump-Biden debates of 2020 should thank either candidate who refuses to do that to the American people again.
It wasnt even a debate. Biden (more or less) followed the rules, trump didnt. Why 'debate" him again? trump wont follow the rules, hell he doesnt even follow the rules in court.
I’m with you. I’m a news junkie and I see a lot of examples, both men. Trump reminds me of my grandfather as he was in his cognitive decline. Biden seems like a sharp mind who, yes, occasionally misspeaks or takes a second to search for a word, likely as a result of his age.
I’m 63 years old, and I just don’t have the total recall I once did. I can still manage to hold a conversation, and until my recent retirement, was able to lead large organizations with multi-million dollar budgets within a Fortune 100 company. Age brings wisdom and experience, while sacrificing perhaps an ever-present rapid-fire mental quickness. If that’s enough for you to conclude Biden’s not your guy, I think that’s foolish, but so be it.
That ain’t Trump.
It’s overwhelmingly likely to be another Least Worst binary choice … again. So I distill it down to first principles in my little pea brain.
Joe Biden is old, he stutters, and he stumbles. He also misspeaks more than many people speak.
Donald Trump tried to overthrow the legitimately elected government of the United States of America.
And then, I’m done.
If they’re both “old men,” then Biden is the kindly grandfather type who repeats his stories.
Trump is … well … there is no caricature that aptly captures Trump. Trump would be that caricature for any other aging man with an undeniable lifelong record of narcissism, sociopathy, and carnage.
And Biden values and relies on the Adults in the Room. Trump abuses them, fires them for ‘disloyalty,’ and then spends years trying to ruin their reputations and careers.
And has often during his career, not just recently. That small addition being made, I concur.
Yes, I believe it would. Trump and Biden have both refused to debate their primary challengers, so I wouldn’t be shocked if one or both refuse in the general.
Trump has an easy out by blaming “unfair moderators”, so he will probably use that and then it will be whether Biden calls his bluff by saying he’s ready to debate or “counter-refuses”.
Also, it may be relevant that the RNC voted to withdraw from the Commission on Presidential Debates in 2022, so as of right now the GOP candidate (likely Trump) will not appear in the “official” debates as we have known them for the last few decades. The DNC is still a member of the CPD.
The most likely path forward, since IMO neither candidate really wants to debate, is that the GOP holds firm on leaving the CPD and the Democrats say they will only debate under the CPD rules. Both parties can play it as an inability to agree to rules. Biden has a bit of the moral high ground (for the little that’s worth) as he is at least agreeing to the rules as they have been forever, but Trump’s brand is upending the rules so it plays into his message as well. Trump will claim “I’m ready to debate him!!” (under my rules) and then claim Biden is ducking him due to senility. His voters will eat it up.
I would be pretty surprised if there are any debates at all. Just another democratic norm trashed.
You do realize that NO incumbent President since Ford has ever debated their primary challengers, right?
Of course. But Trump is not an incumbent, and he isn’t debating either.
My point is simply that both campaigns have an interest in their not being debates. And Trump has already shown he’s willing to skip them and take the hit. He also has a built-in defense/excuse for not doing it - “the mean press is unfair to me”.
You would think that Haley and DeSantis calling him a wimp and a coward would have an effect but it clearly doesn’t. I see no reason to think him ducking the CPD debates would have any negative impact on him either.
Similarly, Biden obviously isn’t going to accept whatever made-up terms Team MAGA comes up with for a “debate”. But it won’t stop Trump from claiming Biden is refusing to debate him. Hell, I think that basically happened just this week or last (Trump claiming Biden wouldn’t debate him).
And the RNC already “quit” the CPD.
So I’d say right now the default will be no debates. And I don’t see why either campaign team would make the concessions they would have to make to force the other side to come to the podium.
I think debates are a waste of time and should be ended. This isn’t Lincoln-Douglas debating issues rationally in front of an informed audience. It’s two guys repeating canned responses, getting in their talking points, and looking for opportunities to get their pre-scripted zingers in. Bring them back when the people and candidates are ready to talk about issues and not score points.
Well, take a look at what just happened in Congress, with the bill that combined funding for Ukraine and Israel, with funding for border security. The Democrats called the Republicans on their demands for border security, and it turns out they were bluffing. They had no intention of ever agreeing to a deal.
This could be the same. Agree to whatever stupid rules they trot out, and I’d bet good money that Trump is bluffing. He’ll find some other excuse to refuse the debate.
Any appearance on stage together has a huge downside for Trump that doesn’t exist for Biden. It’s that this is the one campaign event which, by its design, punctures the bubble that the GOP has carefully crafted around their whole message and candidates. You (nominally, at least) want your supporters to actually watch the debate, but then they get to hear what Biden actually says, and how he says it, without curation by the editors at Fox News et al. Meanwhile, Biden supporters have been listening to Trump all along.
Given that, it’s unlikely that Trump will say anything new at the debate that would sway a significant portion of Biden voters, and there’s a much greater chance that Biden may sway some Trump voters. Why would Trump take that risk, knowing that so long as they’re in the bubble, his supporters will give him a pass on anything, no matter how lame his excuses are?
I agree with this. Any undecided voters who believe both candidates are old men in cognitive decline would see a vast difference between Biden (maybe a couple of hiccups) and Trump (utterly unhinged).
Of course, the number of these voters who would watch the debate, care enough about the difference to vote for Biden, and happen to live in swing states might measure in double digits.
I can’t think of the last time they have been useful. Certainly not for a decade at least.
It’s not even a matter of the cognitive decline issue. It would have a potential negative for anything Trump says, because they’re all lies.
“Biden allows open borders and refuses to pass legislation to secure the border!” “Actually, I supported the Republican-backed border security bill on >date<, which you then torpedoed by telling the Freedom caucus not to let it come up for a vote.”
For a lot of Trump voters, this might be the first time they even hear about such a thing. Border security, defense of Ukraine, support for Israel, the economy, transgender issues, you name it. Trump’s “policies”, such as they are, are all based on lies, and Biden could call out those lies in real-time, in the one format where Trump supporters would likely hear it.
That’s all downside for Trump, and we all know skipping the debate, no matter what his excuse, will not cost him a single vote. So why would he ever take the risk? Even if you agreed to let him talk 90% of the time, and not have to respond to questions, that 10% of Biden might get through to just enough voters to make a difference.
Trump voters wouldn’t care, or would dismiss it as Biden lying. But undecided, low-info voters might care, and this would be useful for persuading all 78 of them to vote for Biden.
I’d argue the number of low-info voters is much higher (though I suspect you were going for effect). Most people don’t care about politics outside of the effect on their lives, which is great when things are fine. If you are one of the few (the general you, not you in particular) interested in politics, this can be shocking.