Pro-Con: Clinton vs. Trump

You’re wrong about the science and about the reasons for the wider acceptance of transgendered people. And there’s plenty of actual, supported, uncoerced medical evidence to prove it, despite your handwaving.

But a transvestite is not the same as a transgendered person. Plenty of “cross-dressers” aren’t transgender, and vice versa.

And yet there are other option - rarer options, yes, but not ones drummed up by “SJWs” (seriously, who even uses “SJW” as an insult?).

I’d point you towards Una’s excellent thread on the subject but I’m not convinced it would help, except perhaps to end this hijack of your own thread.

You really sound no different from those in the past who decried interracial marriage as akin to bestiality, and homosexuality as unnatural perversion. Just because it’s a thing that seems new and weird to you, just as those may have seemed new and weird to people in the past, doesn’t mean that it’s “hijacking the medical voices” or other bigoted nonsense to recognize it for what it is.

Why don’t you just say “I don’t know anything about it and I don’t want to learn?”. Why pretend like you have an opinion based on an understanding of the research on the topic? You literally know nothing about the topic as evidenced by what you write, but you hold a strong enough opinion of them and their experience to decide on how these people should be treated politically. How awful for them.

Sooner or later, some other country is going to act provocatively; there’ll be a miscommunication, a border dispute, a foolish choice, an insulting show of force; something, anything. So how would Trump react? Is “without thinking” the answer? How about “without listening to any advisors”, maybe? Will it just be a steaming platter of hostility, with a side order of making-it-up-as-he-goes-along?

Trump pluses:

I’ll be voting for Clinton but its not a slam dunk.

I align with Clinton on almost every issue other than guns;
She is undisputedly competent and knowledgeable;
She has developed a good international reputation due to her experience as secretary of state;
but…

Her ties with big money donors is disturbing.
Her corporatism is discouraging/

Trump is what is behind curtain number 1.
Who knows WTF he is but its a pretty good guess that he is not going to be less in the corner of monied interests than Hillary.

Clinton vs Trump

Trust: Trump, very slight edge. He’s a business/corporate liar not a political liar.

Foreign and Domestic Policy: Trump, very slight edge. Hillary knows a lot about current policy and is thus entrenched in it. At lease Trump offers a fresh, yet mostly unclear, perspective.

Strengths:

Clinton: Experience with the status-quo. Experienced statesman (political liar).

Trump: Little experience with the status-quo. Not a statesman (corporate liar).

It’s a stark case of the status-quo versus something completely different and unknown. I think the status-quo wins, but maybe Trump can challenge enough to change it a bit, kinda like Sanders is still doing.

Well, he likes to pretend that he is more loyal to the working class than his own class, but who knows.

Pro-Hillary
She will be a very hard worker as evidenced by her Senate and Cabinet careers.
She’s on the right side of LGBTQ issues.
She’ll continue the policies of Obama and build on them.
For the most part, right on environmental/climate issues.
Good record on civil rights issues.
Very knowledgeable on foreign affairs.
On the right side on immigration and refugees.
She has no illusions about being a post-partisan president.
Will make better Supreme Court picks than any Republican.
Anti-Hillary
Too cozy with Wall Street.
Too hawkish.
Not an inspirational leader.
Not liberal enough.

Pro-Trump
Might spell death of Republican Party.
Will drive down downballot Republican votes.
Anti-Trump
Racist
Conspiracy theorist.
Birther.
Xenophobe.
Liar.
Philanderer.
Misogynist.
Islamophobe.
Isolationist.
Climate Change denier.

I’d be prepared to assume that most if not all of Trump’s bombast is merely a product of campaigning. I think he should be judged on his record as an elected official.

Or if not that, his service in cabinet.

Or if not that, his time in the judiciary.

Or if not that, his time in the military.

Things I prefer about Clinton: she prefers a more progressive tax structure, is probably going to be better on preserving the welfare state,
and she isn’t a climate change denier.

Things I prefer about Trump: he wants to limit mass immigration, especially of Muslims; general contempt for political correctness; he’s going to be better on maintaining good relations with Russia and more generally stopping the insane (bipartisan) “Freedom Agenda” foreign policy; he wants to end NATO; he’s going to install a more protectionist economic policy; and there’s at least a chance he would make some efforts to restrict abortion. (I liked his comments about some legal punishment for mothers who choose to abort, although he retracted that). Plus, personal charisma.

Honestly, it’s extremely unlikely I’m voting for either of them.

Another con, and a blood-boiler of one: Clinton was involved in negotiating the TPP, and in keeping the negotiations secret.

Pros:
Clinton - not Trump
Trump - not Emperor Palpatine

Cons:
Clinton - Not Sanders
Trump - I don’t have the time or space

:: golf clap ::

Cons: Trump

Supports war on Isis everywhere
Big spender/ loves social security and military
Inspires hatred / riles up a crowd
Crybaby
Protectionist/ border closer
Favors loose monetary policy
Torturer

Pros: Trump

Decent on taxes
Decent on Russia/NATO (wavering though)
Unable to service party hacks
Improves public perception of democracy and centralization (it can backfire)
Vague understanding that loose monetary policy creates bubbles (yet supports?)
Will be hated

Cons: Clinton

Bigtime warmonger
Insanely apocalyptic policy on Russia/NATO
Husband was torturer, so prob her too
Religious fanatic
Big spender
Bad taxer (recent rhetoric)
Opaquely corrupt
Caught “free stuff” bug from Bernie
Favors Fed Bubble Machine

Pros: Clinton

Uninspiring
Ok on trade
Won’t rock the boat
Will be hated

I don’t understand why people are saying Trump “wants to limit Muslim immigration.” Hasn’t he insisted on NO non-citizen Muslims entering the country at all? Well, I guess ZERO is a limit, strictly speaking.

Trump is crass, vulgar, self-centered, thin-skinned, and possesses not an ounce of self-reflection or humility. He’s xenophobic, Islamophobic, and conspiracy-theory minded. He biggest skill is self-promotion. He knows nothing about running an economy, foreign or domestic policy making, or how government works.

But the thing I hate most about Trump is, goddammit, he’s making me vote for Hillary.

I will be voting for Clinton.

I think she’ll be terrible.

But I’m reasonably certain Trump would be worse, although in fairness he’s said so little about his detailed policy positions that perhaps he’d be awesome.

But every policy he’s hinted at has been abysmal, so I rate the chances of “awesome,” as “non-zero, but damn close.”

Me too.

I could not have said it better, and did not.

Well, ‘limit’ was an understatement. Even if he can’t get all the way to his goal, he’ll still reduce it.