Pro-Con: Clinton vs. Trump

Hillary’s experience is a major plus. Running the executive branch, with its millions of employees and trillions of dollars in expenses, is probably the single most complex task you can ask of an individual. To think that Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump or anyone other than, say, Jeb Bush is up to the task is absurd.

That being said, I reluctantly agree with Bernie Sanders when he points out that it’s fair to question her judgment calls on some matters, such as Libya. I just don’t think that those isolated decisions ought to define her as a candidate, but it’s fair to wonder what other mistakes she will make. However, all presidents are going to make huge mistakes.

About the only positive thing that I can take from the Trump campaign is that he has shown some flexibility and adaptability. I think his one crowning achievement was his willingness to ask for and accept professional advice from more experienced handlers. His decision to ditch his amateurish campaign and up his game a bit proved that he can adapt and that he’s willing to listen to outside advice.

Still, I think he’s woefully under-qualified. Much of the heavy lifting of his campaign was achieved through nothing more than selling anger to an angry electorate. That’s like walking into a college frat party and asking if anybody wants some free beer. Hardly an achievement.

Demanding of each candidate previous household experience in the White House and/or in running the higher echelons of government would limit the field admirably, but might tend to a certain staticity.

[Quote=ahasi]
Running the executive branch, with its millions of employees and trillions of dollars in expenses, is probably the single most complex task you can ask of an individual.
[/quote]

They get help.

They have to be able to listen to that help and allow those people to do their jobs.

Do you think Trump can remember anything long enough, can remember ALL the basic shit he needs to know - and will listen to people telling him how the real world works? Or will he be firing people who don’t cooperate with his egocentric reality bubble?

Chimera:

Seriously?

You think Trump doesn’t have subordinates running various aspects his business empire? Of all the criticisms I’ve heard leveled against Trump on this board, this one is the most outlandish. And I’ve heard him be compared to Hitler.

But not Trump! He’ll make YUUUUUUGE mistakes!

All I can say is I’d pity his press secretary.

Trump’s “empire” tends to run along on the inherited money that was first invested in it, run by managers whom Trump ignores, rather than interfering in his cash cows. The “new” enterprises that Trump has begun, in which he does dramatically interfere, pretty regularly fail, harming his investors, his employees, and his clients/customers.

This is the guy who, when told that the Generals would not obey his illegal orders to kill the families of Daesh soldiers, said that they would, because he told them to do it.

Yes, they get help. But they have to be able to hire people who know what they’re doing. It’s possible that Trump can do this, but I have seen NOTHING up to this point that has shown me he can. I don’t even care about his outrageous statements or his waffling on the positions. He’s probably a lot more mentally flexible and open to bending and compromising on a position than any of the ideologues he vanquished. So I’m cool with Trump in that sense at least.

The problem is, he’s done nothing to convince me that he has the temperament to deal with ongoing negotiations that don’t go his way. He, like most real estate deal cutters and other CEO types, want to get the damn thing done and move on to something else. Washington doesn’t work that way. International relations don’t go that way. Trump is moving into waters in which he’s never swum. He needs help. Can he get it. Can he get help that at least has some understanding of economics or is going to get swashbucklers who are only out to grab a piece of his fame and promote themselves? I’ve yet to see anything that allays my fears. This could be, if elected, one of the least qualified administrations in American history – at a time when governing the United States has never been more complex, and when running it right has never been more consequential.

Running his business empire is one thing. Trump knows that domain, and he knows how to hire talent to run something that he created for himself. That’s not what he’s going to be doing in Washington. He’s going to be running a 3 million employee branch of government, with a cost of trillions of dollars, and trillions and trillions more under his influence. Even one fuck up of the “uh oh” variety has major consequences. Charging off the cliff into major policy decisions would be calamitous.

Again, I’m open to changing my opinion of Trump if he can convince me that he’s not in over his head. Back in 2001, I suspected that George W Bush was a decent guy but in over his head. I gave him the benefit of the doubt initially but he eventually proved me right. I suspect that Donald Trump really isn’t a decent guy but probably not the complete monster that his media caricature persona has portrayed him to be. But he’s definitely in over his head here. If George W Bush hired veterans and still failed miserably as president, I’m guessing that Donald Trump will probably end up making George W Bush look like FDR or TR by comparison – which is not a compliment for either GWB or the Donald.

Trump is good at making cash for himself and definitely expanded his family’s brand beyond anything what his father had done up to that point. However, as you alluded to, he’s not all that great at making money for others. He’s had colossal business failures and has been bailed out by the US tax code numerous times. There’s a reason he won’t release his tax returns and why the republicans never doubled down and hammered him on that I’ll never know. I guess their years of “government is evil” propaganda meant that even just 2 or 3 years in the Senate (Ted Cruz) disqualified them from office and discredited any criticism they had.

Agreed 100 percent.

Bullet dodged – for now.

The more I think about it, though, the Republicans have already written off this race. They will, if at all possible, secretly sabotage Donald Trump by quietly blowing the dog whistles here and there to their supporters to stay home this election and not to worry – they’ll have their chance to vote against Hillary in 2020. And by then, they might well be in a weaker state.

Seriously, if I’m Preibus, that’s exactly what I’m doing. Putting up a plastic, shit-eating smile in front of the cameras and saying “Good luck, Donald,” and just girding for the big fight four years from now. At least they avoided the horrific site of a floor fight at the convention which would have exposed all the GOP wounds for everyone to see.

This is, by the way, why Donald would have to be an incredible long shot to beat Hillary. It’s going to be hard enough for Donald to beat Hillary even with GOP support. But to have the GOP hoping and praying that he loses will make it all that much more difficult.

But what if he somehow…wins anyway?

On yesterday’s Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me, P.J. O’Rourke announced he was voting for Hillary. Calling her “the second worst thing that could happen to this country,” he defended his decision by saying, “She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal paramaters!”

asahi:

Which is a completely different line of criticism than the one I responded to (to which you in turn directed your response) and said was outlandish.