It was a general forum and it’s an emotional & controversial topic. It wasn’t a pro-choice support forum. What Curtis said was out of line. That anyone might say anything less than positive was not.
Oh, in that case, the OP lacks empathy.
As a father (and significantly more pro-life than msot of the board), it would literally bring me to tears if we had to choose between an abortion, giving up my child for adoption or providing for our current children. I think that if you have a lot of resources or a lot of extended family around, you can probably survive post-natal depression but if you have neither resources or s sufficient robust support system, it gets a lot tougher.
I can’t help but think, “There but for the grace of God go I”
I feel the same sort of sympathy for parents who find out that the fetus is going to be horribly disabled and would not be likely to survive childhood. I’d want to put a gun in my mouth.
Yes, yes they do.
I happen to be a mini-mod over there, and really, we don’t appreciate people attempting to drag other boards into the debate. I was not aware of this situation, but I will look into it and bring it up to the other mods there if appropriate. At the least, what Curtis did was bad form. For better or worse, though, I have no such authority on this forum and it is up to the mods here what, if anything, to do about this mess.
Seriously, Curtis, it’s no secret that Stardestroyer is predominantly atheists and vehemently pro-choice. Why are you surprised? Oddly enough, there ARE other pro life voices on SD.net, yet they manage to express their views without getting raked over the coals, Maybe that had to do with, I dunno, carefully choosing when to engage in debate and not crapping on the head of someone going through a horrible period of their life?
So what if he’s not a 14 year old boy. its not like people are treating him with kid gloves.
Another point that I think is important is that not only is the couple struggling financially – and the wife is susceptible to both post- AND pre-natal depression, but their marriage is also very strained right now and they’re working to fix it. The guy and his wife knew that even carrying the pregnancy to term and then giving the baby up for adoption would be far more strain than they’d be able to weather. Their choice was whether to keep their family together or quite possibly destroy it.
And AFTER the guy had revealed all of that, Curtis came in and asked why they weren’t using the Pill and condoms. I was amazed that the guy actually bothered to explain exactly what their contraceptive options were and why they selected the IUD. Dude is classy, seriously, and Curtis came across as looking even more a child than he normally does.
That’s what bothers me about young Master Curtis; he knows so very little about life, yet his mind is made up and closed already. I also don’t think there’s a lot of room for him to examine his faith and thereby strengthen it, and some famous person said faith unexamined is no faith at all.
Not only that, but they consider themselves oppressed when they aren’t allowed unlimited freedom to oppress others.
I don’t think that the concept of life is as binary as that.
Does a fetus have all the characteristics of a new born baby? No.
Does it have more of the characteristics of new born baby than an excised appendix? I think yes.
If someone shot your pregnant wife in the belly killing the fetus but causing very little permanent damage to your wife. Shouldn’t society be able to charge that shooter with more than attempted murder of your wife? But how do we justify this if the fetus is little more than an appendix.
I’m having a hard time imagining that, to be honest.
Aspergers isn’t really an “lets take it east on the poor kid with aspergers” sort of disability.
In Palo Alto, a lot of kids have smart but socially awkward parents and are themselves smart but socially awkward and they get diagnosed with aspergers when they are just smart but socially awkward, the incidence of diagnosis among boys is ridiculously high, it has reached epidemic proportions in some of the middle schools. Its like when we used to diagnose hyperactive kids as ADD when they were simply hyperactive.
So you’re saying aspergers is not omly communicable, it is the first disease to be transmitted by the internet. I’m gonna go get some hand sanitizer and rubber gloves.
Not morally relevant characteristics, however. A fetus is expendable for the same reason a brain dead body can be disassembled for its organs; no one is there.
We justify it the same way we justify punishing rape as worse than “unauthorized rubbing”, because of the emotional trauma caused to the actual live people involved. Not because of the destruction of something that is farther from being a person than a hamster is.
The First Amendment only applies to the Government’s ability (or lack thereof) to control speech. it has no bearing on societies rules governing the proper usage and application of said speech in the public sphere and has zero bearing on this discussion. The Government did not shut down Curtis’ ability to state his opinion, the other members of his society are correcting his improper use of that ability.
Well, there is this a commandment against killing.
There is also a passage in the bible where I think the Mary (mother of Jesus) visits her 6 month pregnant cousin Elisabeth (mother of John the Baptist) and fetus John the baptist leaps in Elisabeth’s womb when he recognizes Jesus in Mary’s womb. This makes some Christians believe that life begins no later than the quickening or no later than the third trimester (of course others believe that life begins at conception (or even before).
Well, life is a general forum, but if you know someone who is going to get an abortion, do you really think this is the time and place to be telling them they’re doing (what you consider to be) a bad thing?
So do several other well respected members of SD.net who manage not to threadshit on other posters.
Apserger’s is not a “get out of jail free” card. They have to obey the rules, too. Sometimes they need them explained a little more thoroughly than other people do, but they still have to behave.
It actually goes beyond that, but I won’t disclose the personal information of someone else. Suffice to say that there was a LOT going on in that family besides an unwanted pregnancy they had taken considerable effort to avoid.
Actually, I thought it read “Fundamentalist MORMON” and had a good laugh, but whatever…
And while we’re not infallible and/or inerrant over there we are usually right. I applaud the actions of the mods over there for your new title and will take every opportunity to mock you at every opportunity wherever I happen to encounter you on the internet.
In other words - bwa-ha-HA! You thought you could ESCAPE but little did you know I am EVERYWHERE!!!.
That is because the gentleman in question IS a gentleman. You DESERVE the shitstorm you got there and you’re getting here.
(And thanks, Doper mods, for leaving this thread open)
:dubious:
Liar, liar, pants on fire. On Saturday, July 24 you DID post extensively in a thread on SD.net regarding homosexual marriage (you are against it, of course). I won’t link to the thread in question but it does exist.
Let me explain something, little boy - your means of expressing your views are hurtful in the extreme. And even if you run, even if you change your name, it’s fucking hard to hide on the internet. Not only were you a total asshat in running for sympathy elsewhere, but you compounded your bout of social diarrhea by trying to stir up conflict between two internet forums. Fortunately, the rest of those of us involved are all more adult than you and have behaved like civilized beings. You, however, have all the charm of a dog that refuses to be housebroken and shits in the center of the dinning room table during Thanksgiving dinner. Even though sympathetic to your viewpoint have pointed out that you way overstepped the line in how you expressed your views.
It’s charged as an aggravating circumstance of the crime against the woman. The woman is still the only victim. Nobody else was hurt.
What does the First Amendment have to do with anything? Is anyone saying he should be arrested?
We’re just talking about manners, not the law.
Which abortion is not, and which the Bible does not call murder. There are places, however, where God commands people to kill infants.
It’s Luke. It says that the fetus jumped when Elisabeth saw Mary because Elisabeth was “filled with the Holy Ghost.” It does not say that the fetus thought or recognized anything, and it doesn’t say that Mary was pregnant yet.
Leviticus says that the penalty for killing a woman’ fetus is just a fine, by the way. It does not consider it to be murder.
What I want Curtis to take away from this thread is that decisions regarding human reproduction are often extremely complex. Decisions such as who to have sex with, when to use birth control, when to have a baby, how many children to have, how to finance said children are incredibly complicated and offen vastly differ from person to person.
His simplistic solutions, solutions that illustrate that he fails to understand that it’s not as easy as just don’t have sex or just have the baby and his over the top sanctimony about his utterly irrelevant religious ideas on such matters are very repellent. Asking him to understand that it’s not as simple or as easy as it seems in his very narrow little world and extremely limited scope of understanding is hardly unfair.