Pro Wrestling: Did They Ever Really Expect People to Believe It Was Real?

Cafe Society
121

My first thought was possibly the Rock and Roll Express, but the 70’s would have been too early for that, as Gibson and Morton didn’t get together until early 80’s. (And quick search on Wiki says they formed in '83 in Memphis.) Prior to the 80’s acrobatic wrestling was indeed very rare and I’d like to say that I think it was Snuka who got the ball rolling in a serious way as his style had a broad affect on the younger generation at the time.

Before him of course there was Antonino Rocca who was way ahead of his time, pioneering moves like head scissors and arm drags way back in the 50’s and 60’s. He may have been the blueprint for the modern wrestler.

122

It’s rigged, but it’s not fake. I can certainly understand people being annoyed at there being a pre-determined outcome, but I am pretty sure that there is no one left who watches it and believes the outcome is malleable.
Makes one wonder whether it makes betting on the outcome better or worse… :stuck_out_tongue:

123

Smith’s a character, to be sure. Jake has never gotten along with with his father owing to how he was raised, including the fact that even as a child his father never broke the act, even at home. There’s also the fact that Jake says his father raped his mother when she was only 12 years old, which is how he was conceived. Link

He talks about his father at great length on the career retrospective DVD that came out several years ago. Honestly I don’t know how valid the claim is though. I like Jake but he’s far from I would consider a reliable source.

124

There was Killer Kowalski and the famous “Claw Hold”. Midget wrestling was big too. The women of early wrestling were certainly not glamorous.

125

People have known that the outcomes are pre-determined for a long time.

One of my favorite episodes of “You Bet Your Life” with Groucho Marx was when he interviewed some flamboyant, loud-mouthed pro wrestler. Groucho responded to the guy’s arrogant brags by asking, “Why are you so good? Are you better at memorizing the scripts?” And when the guy said that his victories in the ring over bad guys taught the crowds that “crime doesn’t pay”, Groucho said if that were true, “you wouldn’t be getting all that money”.

An outstanding read on pro wrestling (especially its relationship to boxing and other ‘legit’ sports) is, “Listen, You Pencil-Neck Geeks”, the autobio of the late wrestling great “Classie” Freddie Blassie.

When Blassie started wrestling at carnivals in the 1930s, he thought it was completely legit. He would go up against more accomplished wrestlers and do his best to win. He learned the truth - that the promoters planned the outcomes to maximize audience reaction and ‘heat’ - when one night, a promoter told Blassie, “The champ’s going over tonight”. This was wrestling lingo (known as ‘kay fabe’) for “Let your opponent win tonight”. It was essentially a promotion for Blassie into the wrestling fraternity: previously, Blassie hadn’t been good enough to have any chance to beat the champ. The promoter realized that was no longer true, and had to let him in on the truth. Blassie was a little agonized to learn that things weren’t on the level, but he decided to stay in the sport rather than give up what he’d worked for. Another ‘promotion’ came when a promoter told him, “You’re going over tonight”, meaning that Blassie’s skill and ability to generate heat rated his being put up as the champ.

Learning about old-time boxing really opened my eyes as to how corrupt and rigged boxing was for many periods in its history. Heavyweight champion Primo Carnera was one of many stories in which mobster boxing promoters fixed fights, in Carnera’s case, to draw large Italian-American crowds in the 1930s. Don King’s promotional hijinx were astonishingly crooked for as recent as they took place. When he represented Mike Tyson, King would choose opponents he knew had no chance against Tyson, refusing more capable boxers, often due to their race. King cynically knew a mediocre white fighter would draw more white viewers than a black contender, especially if King kept a lid on assessments of the white guy’s skills. The result of such manipulations isn’t a whole lot different from simply telling the fighters who’s going to win, like they do in pro wrestling.

Blassie tells an amazing, sad tale about a match he had against the washed up Carnera, who had to resort to pro wrestling after the mob had left him destitute. Blassie was a big star by that time, and had developed a reputation with the public for being especially vicious. Poor Carnera wasn’t privy to the fact that it was a work, and he pathetically asked Blassie not to hurt him. Blassie reflected on the irony of the supposedly legit boxing champ having less control over his fate than the ‘fake’ wrestling champ.

126

To clarify: The tits on a Real Doll are fake. Breast implants are “enhanced”.

Some friends of mine appeared on the Jerry Springer show. It is considerably less “real” that professional wrestling. The guys supposedly pulling people apart are assistant directors telling each performer what to do.

127

Some lesser known pro wrestlers, including Jamie Dundee (son of Bill Dundee, mentioned upthread) have appeared on Springer as various disreputable characters.

128

I was in the Lindell AC in Detroit when Dick the Bruiser and 3 other wrestlers were there. They were on bar stools but their shoulders were touching when they turned. They were huge.
About that time, maybe a day or 2 later, the Bruiser and Alex Karas got in a fight in the back alley. It was the same bar in which Billy Martin used to get into fights . He got in a fight in the same alley with one of his pitchers. Strange heritage.

129

Ah, now you’re talking! :smiley:

There’s a fair bit of the old 1970s British wrestling going the rounds on Youtube. At its best it all looks quite believable, with plenty of quite orthodox holds and throws, and many fights don’t have a discernible “face” or “heel”. One of my favourites has Big Daddy (the Yorkshire one, Shirley Crabtree) settling down to some quiet “proper” wrestling against the much smaller but extremely strong John Elijah. It’s an interesting contrast to Daddy’s usual show.

…And it amuses me that the url just linked ends in “BmI” considering the star of the show. :slight_smile:

130

I used to be an overnight manager at a hotel in Rosemont, IL and the wrestlers would stay with us. It was really odd because you’d see them in the hotel afterwards (the kids would be chasing them down for autographs) and in the bar and all the wrestlers would be talking and shooting the breeze, and it was odd to see the good guys and the villians getting along so well outside the ring.

I will say those guys are HUGE. The British Bulldog took up the space occupied by three regular sized men :slight_smile:

131

I could parse out most of the lingo by context, but it sure wouldn’t hurt to have terms defined. I mean, “They turned into shoots. Shoots? Since when are wrestlers allowed guns?” “Babyface, the guy looks like a linebacker slapped with a shovel.” YMMV

132

Shoots = fighting turns real, or real-ish. Sometimes people will be inadvertently hit (called getting ‘potatoed’) and will deliver a ‘receipt’ (hit the guy back) - that isn’t a shoot. A shoot is when someone really starts fighting. Some memorable shooting - the Steiner Brothers, especially Rick, and the British Bulldogs (mostly the Dynamite Kid) were known to be extra rough to ‘jobbers’ (people hired only to lose matches). Perry Saturn also took some offense at a jobber once and smacked him around hard - I believe that led to him losing finally losing his job, but I’m not 100% on that. Also, when given a live mike and going off-script.

Work = predetermined or scripted. Also some work-shoots, where the performer is going to say what is really on his mind, but you know that is going to happen.

Babyface = good guy. Opposite is ‘heel’. Recently (15-20 years) we’ve seen ‘tweeners’, which means between good and bad guy, usually reserved for popular bad guys.

Linebacker = from U.S. football - generally regarded as big, mean looking men. Not a wrestling term. Slapped with a shovel just means he had a flat face.

Kayfabe = to stay in character

Did I miss any?

133

A primer on wrestling carny-speak.

134

An amusing “kayfabe” story my dad related to me many years ago:

My dad was a Washington State Patrol officer, in the “Weight Control” division (now called “Commercial Vehicle Enforcement” to more accurately describe what they do). In the early years of his career he was stationed in Vancouver, WA, just across the Columbia River from Portland, OR. This was in the 70s, and he was a fan of Portland Wrestling (where, I believe, Jimmy Snuka got started).

One day, he pulled over a truck on I-5 for some minor equipment violation, and was very surprised when he recognized the driver as Tough Tony Borne, one of the Portland Wrestling “heels” (truck driving was apparently his day job). Checking Tony’s paperwork, he discovered that his real last name was the same as ours.

So the two of them were standing on the side of the interstate while my dad was showing Tony what was wrong with his truck, and Tony spent most of the time trying to wheedle his way out of a ticket by playing on the fact that he and my dad had the same last name and so were probably related, etc. He mostly presented himself with a polite, “buddy-buddy” attitude … until a car would approach. When the passing car would get close enough that the occupants might possibly recognize him, Tony would start waving his arms, shaking his fists, stamping his feet, and generally appearing to be throwing a fit and looking as if he wasn’t going to take any crap from some cop. Then, as soon as the car was far enough away, he’d switch right back to Mr. Nice Guy trying to talk his way out of a ticket. Dad said it was one of the funniest things he ever saw.

But he still gave him the ticket :stuck_out_tongue:

135

I was the same way with an added twist of suspension of disbelief. I finally accepted that WWF was fake… but NWA and AWA were REAL. And when a wrestler got injured in one of those feds that’s why he show up in WWF. He’d heal up in the fake league and then go back to the real ones.

136

The term “tweener” has been around about 15-20ish years, but that type of character goes back to the 70s, at least. Mr. Wrestling (Tim Woods) was a popular babyface in MACW, but when he got frustrated with constantly cheating heels, he was known to use a baseball bat to even the score. He called it his “Dingbat”.

Watts used a similar concept in Mid South/UWF. He liked to turn notorious brawlers into babyfaces, not by changing their tactics, but by putting them in the ring against heels. Buck Robley still used his “loaded” forearm pad while teaming with Watts and the insanely popular Junkyard Dog. Watts himself chased the Free Birds and the Russians out of many an arena with a baseball bat or a 2x4. Stagger Lee (JYD under a mask) was a nasty, mean character known to cheat and break any rule in the book…but he was getting even with Dibiase for cheating to beat JYD in a loser leaves town match. Later, Dibiase would turn babyface, but still pull out his “loaded” glove when facing the Free Birds. Etc.

In Florida, Dusty Rhodes ripped off the cheated babyface returns under a mask thing a several times…as Ulvade Slim and the Midnight Rider. Used both gimmicks later elsewhere too.

137

Since zombie threads are the “new vogue”, I thought I’d chip in with a bit on this one:

The 1920s were a real formative era for pro wrestling. According to Lou Thesz, matches had been worked for decades up to then, but there was still an air of reality even among the wrestlers themselves. Often, promoters would decide disputes over territory by having their best wrestlers square off. Also, several championship matches were apparently on the level.

The nature of the business itself changed most of that. In the 1910s, guys like Frank Gotch would pay guys like John Pesek to injure upcoming championship opponents in workouts. Remember, this was the era of the Black Sox in baseball; the “culture of the fix” was much more ubiquitous then. In 1925, the promoters took advantage of football star Wayne Munn’s popularity and made him World Champion, even though his actual wrestling ability was pretty suspect. Three months later, veteran Stanislaus Zbyszko decided that he wasn’t going to play anymore, and that was the end of Wayne Munn’s championship career.

After these turns, the professional wrestling “contest” became nearly extinct–it was just too dangerous for the promoters. 99.9% of matches were worked, and the champion had to be someone who could defend himself in the ring if someone got cute. This is why flamboyant stars like Antonino Rocca never held major singles belts–their “real” wrestling skills just weren’t strong enough. The MacMahons were able to get away with having Bruno Sammartino as a champion because they had such complete control over the relatively small pool of Northeast wrestlers, but the NWA, with their multi-promotion business model, was forced to keep the belt on legit wrestlers until the Crocketts effectively bought out the championship.

138

It’s also kinda interesting that the elite wrestlers with the real skills that you’d never want to get into a shoot with were not particularly physically imposing: Thesz, Gagne, Lebell, Hodge, Robinson, etc. Exept Karl Gotch. He was effin’ scary to watch even knowing it was worked, and I’d have to imagine a lot of his opponents were scared sh!tless being in the ring with him.

139

Heh…Hodge was particularly unimposing. Think he always weighed less than 200 pounds legit. Ole Anderson tells a great story about when he was training for the AWA. Seems Verne Gagne brought him to the gym, lined up a few of his guys, and told Ole to pick one to wrestle semi-shoot style.

Ole said “I’ll take the little guy”–meaning Danny Hodge. Obviously, he didn’t recognize Hodge, or know about him, possibly because Ole had been out of the country for several years serving in the army. What followed was probably highly amusing to everyone in the building that wasn’t Ole Anderson, as Hodge stretched him but good.

140

I always preferred choreographed, that is how they refer to stunts on stage or in movies.