There you go again. :smack: Do you think it adds to your credibility to express ignorance about such luminaries? (It does not.)
And you seem to have ignored my very first response to you in this thread, in which I tried to explain that “plan” is used in an idiomatic way that you seem determined to misunderstand. I expect most people reading this do understand the idiom, and are annoyed that we are wasting their time even discussing it.
Your perspicacity is truly astounding. (No, we are in fact not in GD.)
…I’ll let people judge my credibility based on my posts, and I’ll let people judge your credibility on the basis of your posts. I’m sure from the lens of privileged white American men these are important voices in 2019. But there are plenty of other voices that you can listen to now if you choose too. The world isn’t the same as it was 20 years ago. The gatekeepers to opinions have gone.
I didn’t ignore it. I addressed it. People said stuff to you on Facebook and Twitter. Got it. You won’t tell us exactly what they said. Got it.
We are not wasting our time “discussing it.” It is what this thread is all about. Its the words in the quote that you highlighted in your OP.
I started the thread, and IMO it is not “all about” a tendentious insistence on an overly literal parsing of the meaning of the word “plan”. :rolleyes:
…you do realize that if we stop being literal about the OP there is actually nothing left to debate? What do you think the OP is all about? What have I gotten wrong? What is it you would like do discuss?
Here’s another example of progressives combining the stubborn insistence that their wing is more popular than it is, with a conspiratorial mindset about the MSM:
I know many of you hate podcasts, so here’s a pull quote from Nate Silver: “First of all, the Young Turks are full of shit about this, and I hope people see that and are curious about why.” (The “why” is motivated reasoning.)
I started clicking your links, and after a few seconds was disappoined in TYT and the realclear link — I’d almost prefer podcasts over shows like TYT. TYT present a chart provided by the CNN poll, brag about how it’s illegible when TYT’s camera presents it, but tell us Biden’s alleged spurt among the general populace is just because CNN sampled old people. True? Who knows! Who cares!! Everyone is entitled to their own facts today. I suppose I could have down a screen-grab on the illegible CNN chart, tried image enhancement software, to see if TYT was misleading me, but Nate Silver had done the work for me…
Forty-five minutes! Forty-five with an F. That’s how long the Nate Silver podcast is. And it isn’t even about the CNN poll or debunking TYT — that’s presumably just a minute or three buried somewhere in the podcast. Is the TYT debunking at the 10-minute mark? The 22-minute mark? The 37-minute mark?? Nate Silver’s profits aren’t enough to prepare transcripts of his podcasts??? Who knows! Who cares!
I’ll score this as TYT - Zero. Nate Silver - Zero. I’m even tempted to deduct five brownie points from Slacks who subjected me to this.
…who is it, do you think, the Young Turks speak for? I’m progressive but I can’t stand Bernie. I’m progressive but I’ve watched the Young Turks exactly once and I’ll never watch them again. You can be progressive and actively oppose Bernie. You can be progressive and support AOC but not support Bernie. The real progressive candidate is Elizabeth Warren. Bernie doesn’t listen to black people. Warren does. And her policies reflect that.
So I’m looking at your cite and thinking how does that relate to your OP? I’ve read your (first) cite and I think they are wrong: but so what? If Nate Silver says their analysis is full of shit then I’ll accept its full of shit. Somebody said something wrong on the internet. Whats that got to do with the Democratic Party and your contention that “Progressives have NOT taken over the Democratic Party?”
What is it you are trying to say? Can you tie this into what you said in the OP?
The overton window seems to have moved to the left a bit. At least regarding things like health care (the public option is now the conservative option, while it was the liberal option a decade ago and single payer wasn’t even discussed in public back then).
The issue with race and the working class is that sadly race is a factor. Whites w/o a college degree have been abandoning the democrats and becoming republican. However the issue isn’t income, its education (538 controlled for income and found there was still a 30-40 point gap between high school vs college educated whites).
But its not even education. Education is a proxy for authoritarianism and bigotry. Supposedly when you control for various forms of prejudice (nativism, racism, sexism, rejection of islam, etc) and also control for authoritarianism, the education gap pretty much disappears.
Obama did a lot for the white working class. The stimulus bill saved the economy. He saved the automotive industry, the ACA gave some of them health insurance. But it didn’t seem to help him or the democrats.
Democrats need to find a way to appeal to whites w/o a college education, but I don’t know how. Warren talking about a ‘right to repair’ law might be a good first step, but I really don’t know. If the reason rural whites and whites w/o college have been abandoning the democrats is because they reject multiculturalism and the see the democrats as pro-multiculturalism and the GOP as anti-multiculturalism, I don’t know if the democrats can win them back.
Septimus, I don’t see how I could have been clearer than “opening segment”. If it had been “buried” for a “minute or two” later in the episode, I would have provided a time to skip to. But in this case, you could have just clicked the link and it would have started playing, maybe after an ad reading or two.
Sure it’s popular to cap credit card rates. This is one of those low-hanging fruit items, like guaranteeing young adults can be on their parents’ health insurance until age 26.
So why’s your screen name “Wesley Clark”, same as the NATO general?
When I was watching a lot of MSM, I used to think it was anti-multiculturalism, but it didn’t make a lot of sense to me. Why should people care about that?
If you believe Andrew Yang, the answer is that 4 million jobs were automated away in the swing states, and there’s a direct line between the areas these jobs left and the areas where Trump won. That theory dovetails with Nate Silver’s analysis that I got when I clicked a link in the article you linked.
Half of the people who lost their jobs that got automated away didn’t get back into the job market. Of them, half are on disability. [from Yang’s stump speech]
The reason they can’t get back into the market is that although there are a surplus of job openings, those jobs generally require a college degree. That’s why so many of the people in those areas have been left behind.
Many of the people Yang talks to say that the Democrats have left them behind.
Then there are the millions who can see that their jobs are about to be automated away. They will also have a hard time replacing their current jobs at their current salary.
That explanation, more than any other I’ve heard, makes more sense to me as to why many white people without a college education voted for Trump.
I’m not understanding how the right to repair helps anyone in that demographic, so maybe I’m missing something in that paragraph.
Thats a fair argument and one I’ve heard before. But again various factors come into play:
Why are only white people susceptible to this argument? Blacks and latinos lost their jobs due to automation, they aren’t voting for Trump. Black women are one of the most economically insecure demographics out there, but only about 4% of them voted for Trump.
Some studies have found it was fear of cultural change, not economic anxiety that predicted Trump support.
538 does say economic anxiety played a role though.
However I think as a society we just aren’t willing to face facts about who we are as Americans. Trump and the GOP are a political movement that reject multiculturalism, support white supremacy and dislike democracy. These aren’t bugs, they are features and are a big factor in their support. The south under Jim Crow was a dictatorship to enforce a white ethnostate, and sadly a lot of Americans want a less intense version of that now to maintain social status. Trump and the GOP reject democracy and support social heirarchies.
Right to repair is about farmers. A farmer may buy a tractor but they aren’t allowed to repair it, they have to go to a very expensive dealer to fix it even though they could fix it themselves for much cheaper. The law would save farmers money and let them be more independent.
The place where “right to repair” is a really big issue is with farm equipment. Not being able to fix your own iPhone is a pain in the ass. Being forced by law to take your tractor to a certified John Deere repair shop instead of fixing it yourself (or taking it to a repair shop with competitive prices) can make the difference between your farm turning a profit or not.
Not sure if it’s a big enough issue to swing a whole demographic, but it’s a start.
I’m not sure that’s entirely true. From that same Nate Silver article I linked, he notes that Trump also gained with Latinos and African Americans without a college education in some areas.
The automation argument doesn’t apply to all people who are minorities. It only applies to people in those areas affected who don’t have a college education.
I’ve read a lot of articles about the fear of cultural change also. Some of them weren’t even about whites. Some of them were saying that it was about what it means to be American. Fareed Zacharias was claiming that America may have been changing too fast for the comfort of some.
There were even some studies that showed that Republicans were just anxious people and were more averse to change than others.
Maybe.
But as I watch the Yang campaign, I see in rallies and online, people claiming to change from Trump supporters to Yang supporters. I realize this is just anecdotal and a really too small sample, but I’m less convinced about the fear of cultural change argument as an overarching reason, as I read their stories.
The other reason I’m less willing to accept this theory wholesale is that there’s no way to bridge the divide from that angle. And there are people who profit from dividing people.
Thanks. I’m not sure that will do much to change the plight of enough people without college educations, but I think I understand where you were going with it. Hopefully, that proposed legislation will help everyone who can’t afford to buy new things or pay someone to repair the old.
(No, we are in fact not in GD.)