Project Greenlight 2

IS anybody else watching this?

This year they cahnged the contest, before they picked one person’s screenplay and let them direct. This year rthey picked separate winner’s in screenwriting and directing.

My thoughts on the winner’s

The screenwriter Erica I actually like. She finds herszelf in a unique spot as a screenwriter, in that she has a lot of creative say in the movie, especially in pre-production. I like that hse is willing to fight for her creation at this stage, because I think she realizes that once the director’s take ove those battles will not be hers to fight. She take sthe criticism a bit too hard, probably, but I think that is hard to criticize, she does seem willing to listen and incorporate changes that others hav pointed out. It is also clear that she understands that she is a neo-phyte in this world, it is someone else’s money, that compromises must be made and that you need to listen to those who have a lot of experience.

The director’s , on the other hand, do not seem to understand this, especially Efram ( I think). Kyle is not so bad, but Efram seems less to understand what a privilidged position he finds himself in and also that he is Miramax’s employee. I have no idea if they are good director’s, I think they got in becuase in fact they have shown themselves very capable in their own small filmmaking world. They are having a lot of problem in pre-productiontaking control, yet when soemthing doesn’t go their way they whine about it. I cannot believe they threatened to quit the project because a casting decisoin was being made for them, when they only have ten days to start filming. It is quite childish behaviour. However, I think they are probably better directors then the last winner and I think the finished product will probably be better.

I can’t get enough of this show. It’s a tremendous learning experience for anyone interested in how filmmaking really works.

I really like the screenwriter, and her script is actually pretty good (it’s on the Project Greenlight website).

The two directors, though, are complete shmoes. They fail to understand that their job is to direct. If they are, as they themselves said in the most recent episode, unable to direct this script, then this is as much a comment on their ability to direct as it is a comment on the script. It’s not as if they drew a lottery ticket and had to direct just whatever piece of crap came out of the barrel; there was a vetting process from which a pretty good script was chosen. An excellent director could make a decent movie out of it, the way it was submitted to the contest.

Not only that, but they personally have no idea how to play the Hollywood game. They don’t understand they’re in charge, but only up to a point. They’re not taking control of the things they should be, and they’re squealing about stuff over which they have no power. They’re squandering their opportunity. When they pitched a fit about the casting, and said, in effect, “If you make us cast that actor, we’ll consider quitting,” Chris Moore’s response was priceless: Well, fuck off, then. To quote somebody on the Project Greenlight message boards, it’s as if they’ve been dealt a royal flush, and they decide to fold. They’re idiots, and there’s no way anybody is going to want to hire them for another movie after this.

Yes, I understand the way “reality TV” works. Most of the drama comes out of the editing. It’s obvious from light matching and camera angles and whatever that reaction shots can be plucked from far-removed footage in order to create rhythms and punch up emotional subtext. It’s therefore a mistake to consider the show an objective, unvarnished representation of truth. But these guys are so incompetent, they speak for themselves; look at how producer Jeff Balis (who has come a long way since Stolen Summer) immediately read the situation when the directors were trying to convince the writer it would be a good idea to take the script away from her and rewrite it themselves. She was obviously freaked out, and they were pretending not to notice; Balis nailed them on it instantly.

I predict a horrifying train wreck. The resulting movie may be better than Stolen Summer, but that ain’t saying much. I can’t imagine these guys working successfully in a collaborative medium and getting a decent result, after all their time doing everything for themselves up in Maine. They just plain don’t know what they’re doing. Remember their question: “Do we really need a production designer? What does she do?” What the fuck? I can understand my mom asking that question, but these two who have supposedly been working toward a position in the industry? The production designer is maybe the fifth or sixth most important person on a film. How do they not know this?

Even as frustrating as the show can be with these two flywheels making a godawful mess out of their big break, I still derive great enjoyment from it. I like the discussions of the process, because I’m a serious film geek, and I’m enjoying some of the supporting players. Chris Moore definitely has his shit together this time (another change from Stolen Summer), and I think that casting director guy is a pip. I laughed out loud when he went skipping down the hallway to deliver bad news to the two wingnuts. Unprofessional, sure, but it’s not like he’s burning any bridges: These guys’ career is over before it starts.

Oh, and for what it’s worth, at least one of the screenplay finalists has been picked up for development and possible production. The Prisoner, written by that one spooky guy, about a filmmaker researching a project who gets stuck inside a prison*, has been purchased by a production company and currently has one of the director finalists attached. Now that is a movie I want to see.

Thank you for starting this thread!

I missed this week, but hope to catch it in rerun. It looked like Erica was going to have a meltdown of some sort. Did she?

She didn’t really melt down but she came close. The directors made script changes the night before a shoot and then tried to slip them by like no one was going to notice. Erica went to Jeff and Chris and they read the directors the riot act. Chris Moore obviously despises Efram. He called him a “passive-aggressive, manipulative fuck” which is a pretty apt description imo. You could also throw “raging narcissist” in there too.

Last year I was rooting for Pete Jones to do well. He seemed like a decent, regular guy who got a break and apprciated it. He also listened to what others were telling him.

This prick Efram (his partner, Kyle, just seems to go along with whatever Efram says) seems to think he’s already Steven Spielberg. I don’t think he realizes that industry people watch this show and they’re going to see what a controlling, self-absorbed little bitch he is. That’s not exactly unusual in Hollywood, of course, but he hasn’t done anything yet to deserve a big ego.

The point of the thing isn’t that they are trying to give amatuer directors a chance to make a real movie. They are trying to make an entertaining series, and like any reality show they want drama. Nobody is really very good at their jobs(Chris Moore included, even though he thinks he is. I almost fell on the floor when he said he had been involved with 11 movies so he was the expert. Ohhh 11 whole movies).
The directors are passive aggressive little fucks, Bulis still has not managed to find his balls and is trying to look good for the camera. The screenwriter is cool, but she was set up for a fall. They told her she was incharge of the script and story, then gave her no power to actually do it.

Does anyone know why sometimes the episodes are 60 minutes and other times (well, at least once this season) 30 minutes?

Pash

I missed the beginning of this season, so I didn’t see these guys getting chosen. But here’s my take–

I really like Chris Moore. I think he’s too sure of himself, but he has a realistic, bottom-line approach that I appreciate. For example, I believe that had he been around, that cheesy group hug scene in the hospital would not have happened. (BTW, I’m glad that William Sadler got the role as the father. I thought he made a much better fit than Christopher McDonald. And it was just amazing how he came through at the last minute like that.)

I can’t stand Efram & Kyle, but I do realize what a sensitive position these guys are in. They have a fine to walk between too adamant or too flexible; too gracious or too cocky. So I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but either they’re sneaky and underhanded or they’re just too dumb to realize how insensitive they’re being. I suspect the former. Erica is walking that same line – to bitch or not to bitch?-- and doing a much better job of it, IMO.

I would like to ask this show’s creators what their priorities are. Which wins out–a better movie or a better season of PG? I mean, if it looked like a director was decent but would cause a lot of conflict, would s/he win out over a director who seemed superb but rather boring?

Oh, and AFAIK, each episode is 30 minutes typically. I think the hour-long episodes are just for what the creators deem to be special occasions.

Re last night’s episode:

When are these guys going to take some responsibility?

Yeah, yeah, I know, it’s reality TV, the editing can’t be trusted, a clever cutter can turn black into white, blah blah blah. It’s possible these guys are actually doing a pretty good job and only the worst bits are being used on the show. “Day Seven” was a twelve-hour shooting day; we only see thirty minutes of it (or, rather, more like twenty, once you cut out the opening and closing credits, the “previously” segment, the confessional interviews, and everything else). That’s one thirty-sixth of the whole day.

But even accounting for that potential distortion, I’m struck by how they seem so freakin unapologetic for their inexperience. The capper was that moment where they’re standing behind the camera, and Tweedledum says to Tweedledee, “Y’know, we can’t blame everybody else for this,” with “as usual” unspoken but implied. The other guy nods, and I’m thinking, Hey, are they finally gonna admit that maybe they don’t know what they’re doing? But then they dodge it, saying, “This day was just really poorly organized,” as if to suggest, nobody is at fault.

Now, I don’t mean to attack them for not knowing what they’re doing. It’s completely understandable. That’s the point of the show, to give a break to talented amateurs. There is no shame in inexperience. It would be a freakin’ miracle to pluck somebody from Maine or wherever these guys came from and expect them to run a movie set on their first day.

But these guys don’t seem to understand that. They have responded to being put in charge by pretending to know more than they do, and trying to hide their insecurities. That is a disaster. All of these people who are there to help, who have all this knowledge the duo can tap, are just waiting to be asked. And instead, the pair is trying to shut everybody out.

There was a moment in the show (or was it last week? I don’t remember) where one of the assistants called out an order: “Team Two leaving, Team One coming in.” And one of the directors says, “Team one, team two, what does that mean?” And the assistant explains, “Team two is stand-ins, team one is actual performers.” And the director says, “Okay, got it.” It’s very telling: Their whole experience should be like that. And he didn’t even say thank you: It was clear he felt embarrassed for not knowing. But how should he know? He’s never done this before. There are a thousand things you can’t know about shooting a movie if you haven’t been on a set. (And note the director didn’t even say “thank you” for the tidbit. He just walked away really fast as if to disassociate himself from the feeling of not-knowing.)

Even worse was the bit where they were trying to direct the two actors in front of the garage. The actors just wanted a few minutes to work out the scene for themselves; the directors hovered and kept throwing in suggestions, which the actors pointedly ignored, because that’s not what they wanted. It doesn’t take a freakin’ genius to figure out you’re supposed to back off in that situation. Now, I trained as an actor, and I know exactly what Bill Sadler was talking about when he said he thought the directors were nervous and felt the need to present themselves as directors, when all he wanted was a little time and a little space, so maybe I have a bit of an advantage there. But the two directors had to be doggedly blind not to recognize what their actors were expecting in that moment; Kyle and Efram feel so insecure about being taken seriously that they needed to force their involvement even when it was painfully obvious that it was neither helpful or necessary.

And then they can’t recognize that they’re the problem. As I said, there is no shame in inexperience. If they were really honest about taking advantage of this amazing fucking opportunity, they’d be shutting up whenever possible and absorbing the collective knowledge that surrounds them. Yes, they have to direct the movie, but it’s clear that they’ve become an obstruction to the professionals on the crew. This is their first time directing in a professional setting, and they have the totally mistaken idea that it’s weak to ask for help. It’s not. There is strength in recognizing one’s own limitations and focusing on improving those skills, or in delegating that task if one doesn’t think it’s something one will ever be much good at.

Seriously, imagine the following, based on what we saw in last night’s episode: They do three or four takes of the scene in the back of the limo. It’s evident the actors aren’t getting it, and the directors don’t know how to make it better. Instead of getting pissy about it, like they did, visualize this: Kyle and Efram say, “Okay, everybody, take five.” Kyle goes to Jeff Balis and Chris Moore and says: “It isn’t working, and we’re not sure how to improve it. Do you have any suggestions or advice for working with the actors?” And Efram goes into the limo with the actors: “I know this is frustrating; it seems like you’re struggling with the scene, and what we’re giving you isn’t helping. What should I be doing for you? What do you need from me? What do I need to change so I can help you find the scene?”

I think it was Amy Smart who had the best observation on this. She talked about how there’s a big difference between a director who knows what he wants, and a director who doesn’t know what he wants but recognizes it when he sees something good. There’s nothing wrong with that, either: I can think of lots of high-caliber directors who work the same way, like Kubrick and Altman. (That’s a big part of why Kubrick’s shoots ran so long.) Kyle and Efram are that way also, but they’re handicapped because they don’t know how to help the actors explore the moment. They don’t have any of the vocabulary. Again, because I trained as an actor, I watched last night with frustration, knowing exactly what I would be saying to the two in the limo to help them find the scene: “Try it like this. Remember this given circumstance. Try this physicalization. How much do you know about what the other actor wants in the scene? Look for a moment where you can suddenly make a different choice.” And so on. Kyle and Efram lack that background, and they’re obviously embarrassed by it but won’t admit it, perhaps even to themselves. They’re coping by ladling out attitude and bullshit, and by focusing on bureaucracy.

It’s just such a freakin’ waste.

Eh, I don’t even refer to Kyle and Efram as “they” anymore - Efram’s clearly in charge and pulling the strings.

Kyle facilitates, but his place was made clear in the episode where Efram was too busy playing with his studio-provided, pimped out Land Rover to make it to a script meeting on time.

Erica (sweet Erica; yes, I’m sweet on her) says something along the lines of “you’re an asshole.” Perfectly justified, as Efram was more than a couple of hours late.

Efram turns to Kyle and asks, “You’re not mad at me, are you?” And Kyle folds and gives some weak bullshit about how it was kinda sorta an inconvenience.

If that was a true partnership, however fucked up, those two woulda been havin’ words.

Kyle’s just an unwitting (or, on some level, willing) press secretary/assistant.

Plus, you gotta love how Efram is just snakey on all levels (paraphrasing):

Jeff: “You’re changing Shot X?”
Efram: “Yeah.”
Jeff: “…I like that Shot X.”
Efram: “Yeah, I liked it, too…”

Seriously, the only way to get this guy’s attention is to just nail him to wall. Give him no room to squirm.

Wanna read something fun? William Sadler (the guy they got at the last minute to play the father) has his own website with a message board, and in this thread he weighs in about working on Project Greenlight. (Link goes to the second page, where his posts start.) Rather an illuminating glimpse behind the scenes of the show (which is a weird expression to use here, since the show is behind the scenes of a movie, after all), and confirms for me that the editors aren’t punching up the directors’ incompetence for television. Reading Sadler’s comments, we know it really was this bad. He’s fair about it, and places the blame on the project as being ill-conceived as a whole, but still…

I’ve watched a few of these and they are fascinating. Out of curiosity are Kyle and Efram SO’s to each other or what? They seem to have a definite “couple” vibe going on IMO… but I could be wrong.