Proof that "Marketing" is not a real degree?

I first heard about this product on Jay Leno some many months ago. These “Uncrustables” are a round frozen sandwich that are crustless and need only be thawed when you want a PB&J (presumably to avoid having to go through the time-consuming and tiring process of making one from scratch). While I think the product itself is completely stupid, it’s the name that really bugs me. Stealing Jay’s line - “It sounds like a brand of underwear for hookers.”

And then there’s Homeschooling for Dummies. Talk about an ego-blow for the kid whose parents buy this book. I know what the title is supposed to mean, but I’m convinced it just doesn’t say what they wanted it to.

Now, I assume that large companies introducing new products do actual product research before they put something out. I would think that they use focus groups to find a good name for the new product. What on earth possessed these groups (or in their absence, those in the company responsible for naming the product) to come up with these names? Shouldn’t a “professional namer” be looking for alternate interpretations of a proposed name before they go, “Yup, I think that one’s a keeper!”?

The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Self-Esteem.

Regrading focus groups, my “intro to marketing” professor (my degree is in Management but “intro to marketing” was required) described focus groups as a bunch of people with nothing better to do on a Wenesday afternoon who volunteer mainly for the free sandwiches and coffee. So it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if “Uncrustables” made it through a consumer focus group with flying colors.

From the same class I learned that people in the marketing profession take it very seriously and actually consider it to be a social science. They study phycology (Maslow is a big favorite) in order to manipulate consumers into believing that buying crap will fill emotional voids in their life. They run studies, compile statistics, build big ole databases to mine; they draw lots of charts; they segment markets and market to segments. They pride themselves on knowing exactly which products to push to which consumers and how to do it. They consider themselves more important to the company than engineering, design, manufactoring and R&D combined. They make huge salaries and wear shiny suits. They are truely masters of the world.

After class I would almost believe that some of this attitude was justified. Then I’d get home, turn on the TV and witness that the best these self styled masters of manipulation could come up with is frozen PBJ’s called “Uncrustables.” Or that one of these same marketing geniuses really thought it was a good idea to use Iggy Pop’s “Lust for Life” to pimp cruise ships.

So after learning a little bit about how marketing works, and how marketing professionals think, combined with seeing the work they actually produce I’ve come to the conclusion that the entire concept of marketing as a “profession” is a steaming load of bullshit.

Actually, they’ve succeeded quite admirably at the only work they really do – convincing companies to hire them at exorbitant salaries. :smiley:

You do realize all of the products on Jay Leno’s show are fictional and made up for comedy purposes. They don’t actually exist.

You do realize that the link I provided actually takes you to the real website that Smucker’s, the maker, has for the product. But thanks for the insight.

Why was this a bad idea? Did it hurt their sales? I think it was a perfect accompaniment to what they were selling, it’s a catchy tune with a punchy beat that goes along with what they are trying to show their cruise is - i.e., not some Loveboat atmosphere. And the “Lust for Life” refrain that is repeated fits in well, too.

So what’s the problem?

So let me get this straight. You think marketing is pure bullshit, yet here we are talking about the products.

It seems to me that the marketing drones know exactly how to manipulate us.

How does our talking about the products make them money?

I suppose if they wanted to manipulate us into talking about how stupid they are, then they have succeeded.

There are companies (or at least I know of one) that are paid to analyze ad content.

Some marketing is successful, some not. (duh!) The tobacco industry did a great job for years.

Of the market that cruise ship was going after, I’d be hardly of them knew what “Lust for Life” was about. And for those that did, and stopped to think about it, I can’t see any of them caring. If I was in the market for taking a cruise, I wouldn’t give a flip if they used a song about drugs in their ads.

Now, the jeans commercial with “Fortunate Son” in it, that’s a different story. Cause the point of that ad is completely opposite of the point of the song.

Yes, I think marketers are VERY talented. They convinced thousands of people to:
[ul]
[li]shell out $5 for 65 g of precooked frozen bacon[/li][li]purchase a plastic device called a Baconwave, when you can microwave bacon just fine on paper towels, thankyouverymuch[/li][li]look in the refrigerated section for tubes of cookie dough, cuz it’s just so darn hard to make it from scratch (now they even sell premade raw brownies in the pan - just toss in the oven)[/li][li]pay extra for “Lunchables” cuz, ya know, I don’t have the time to take out cheese and pepperoni, and crackers, and put them all together in a lunch bag[/li][li]buy “Dunkaroos” - a little container of cookies with a tiny container of icing marked up to double what the price would be if purchased separate[/li][/ul]

This thread started out just as commentary on the names of a couple of stupid names for products. Unfortunately, my attempt to be a little clever in the subject brought it in an entiretly different directions. I’m ok with that.

Ah…the marketers did it. Of course we can’t blame the buying public for their continued and expanding laziness, for continuing to think that whatever they feel is missing within them might be obtained from buying a BaconWave, and for promoting the notion that “quality of life” has something to do with how expensive your crap is. No. It was the marketers.

God Damn The Marketers.

When will the general public start to understand that you don’t need to take your kid to Hawaii once every year to help promote his love for you, having the best of everything does not make up for both parents working (I don’t care which one stays home, but one of them should be there when the kids come home from school), and the marketers are not making you do it. They simply happen to be the scapegoat, since today’s public refuses to take responsiblity for anything they do and any of the resulting consequences.

“I ran into a pole and ruined my car and hurt my neck.” Goddammit, sue the coffee cup maker since you were trying to keep the lid from leaking on you at the time you lost control. You gambled away your family savings while pissed up in Vegas? Sue the hotel - they never should have let you gamble while that drunk. Own a BaconWave that you never use? Stop blaming the marketers. It is your fault that you bought it. No one “convinced” you that you should get it. If they did, you have no business being free in society where you could do serious harm to yourself or others, as you have entirely no control over your own actions.

Wow, that all sounds far more angry and rant-y than I expected it to be. Oh well. Sue me.

I wouldnt ever want to go on a cruise, especially if it were merely like an extended onshore party. I could get the same effect by being enclosed in a building for 4 days. If I were to cruise I’d want it to be freakin loveboat.

Now, I could see trip-hop being used rather than straight lounge, but post-punk? :rolleyes:

I have an English degree, not Marketing, but I do work in the Marketing Department for a health insurance company. Granted, it’s not the same kind of marketing that say, Kraft or another retail company does, but I think it’s safe to say that in general, Marketing is not the same as Advertising. I know they seem very similar to most people but they are different. So is Branding.

In my company, Branding develops the overall image we want to put forth. They develop our “tagline” and write the very specific rules on how, when and where our logo, tagline and brand in general is used.
Marketing writes the words that generate the image and feeling Branding is looking for in the marketplace. Marketing writes the words in the letters we send to customers, the collateral (brochures, etc) that Sales uses to make the sale, etc. For companies that have a tangible product on store shelves, Marketing writes the words that go on the box, bag, bottle, etc.
Advertising comes up with the actual strategies for marketplace advertisement, multimedia ad placement, etc.
In my company, a mix of all three departments comes up with product names but branding is the department that acutally tests out names with focus groups, etc.

While I will agree with TheFunkySpaceCowboy that focus groups can sometimes be a complete waste of time, that most often happens if you don’t pool the right people in your focus group. I personally have never been involved with the focus groups at my company, but I do know they carefully select the people they use and screen out the free sandwich people.

I do have to disagree with the following…

Ok, first of all, I own ZERO shiny suits and my salary falls quite short of huge. :slight_smile: Also, I guess I just want to emphasize that not all companies are alike in their marketing approach. While I’m positive that there are many companies out there that take the aggressive strategy TFSCowboy mentions, not all of them do. Including mine. We don’t want to trick or manipulate anyone into buying our products. We do want to tell them how great our products are by pointing out the good things and showing them in a positive light when compared to other brands.

(Personal mini-rant: It is also my personal opinion that our Sales department are the ones who hold themselves above everyone else in the company because without them, “where would the rest of the company be?” As a whole, they are very arrogant and act as if we should all worship them for what they do. And while I appreciate the contribution they make to the company, where would they be without all the nifty brochures and flashy folders and stuff that my department makes to help them impress clients?)

Anyhoo…I guess I just wanted to point out that not all companies are the same, that ad campaigns are developed by many people in several departments so you can’t just blame us poor marketing “drones” (Thanks for the lovely title, FranticMad. I think I’ll put it on my business cards!), and that in my experience, the whole point of marketing is to make a product attractive to the consumer and generate their interest in buying it, but not to manipulate them into buying something they don’t want. Need is a whole 'nother ballpark.

Thank you, Morkfromork, for making the point that it is still the consumer who makes the choice whether to buy a product or not. Don’t blame the marketing because you choose to buy precooked frozen bacon or a tiny container of cookies with an even tinier container of icing. The marketing doesn’t FORCE you to buy what you do. You make those choices on your own. Some people may be more influenced by marketing and advertising than others but I don’t see how you can blame a company for the choices you make.

If people don’t buy stuff, it stops getting sold. So somebody out there is buying Lunchables…and if you think for one second that it can be attributed to marketing & advertising “guilting” parents into buying them and not the KIDS whining that all the other kids have them too, you’re kidding yourself.

And lastly,

That’s a tad offensive. I feel you’ve over-generalized, drawing from your experience of one Intro to Marketing class. Perhaps you’ve jumped to your conclusion a bit hastily? I hate to think that what I spend 40+ hours a week doing is a “steaming load” of anything.

Let me just pipe in here, as an employee at a giant corporate type ad agency: It aint an exact science. Not even close. All that data base stuff, studies, etc. that you mention? Well, it costs money. Even when it is used, stupid products still make it to market. The average person thinks it’s all about statistics and mind control, when really, it’s more about art and sales. It might be checked against information in the databases and the studies, etc., but these days only the biggest product rollouts garner that type of expense. Advertising and Marketing is one of the first budget items to be trimmed, and last to be reinstated. If they were truly capable of a mind control level of sales, they wouldn’t be touched.

I saw the Uncrustables at Wal-Mart last week. Gotta say I wasn’t tempted to buy them. I’m a pretty lazy guy, but I think I can spare the sixty seconds it takes to make a PB&J.

Precooked bacon rules, though. That’s a real timesaver. Why wait 10 minutes for it to cook in the microwave or twenty minutes to fry it when you can have your bacon hot and ready to serve in twenty seconds?

Wait, let me get this straight. People think racism is evil, but people still talk about it. THAT MUST MEAN THEY APPROVE. THEY MUST APPROVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT IT. YES THIS IS CERTAINLY THE CASE.

I have actually eaten Uncrustables. I bought them just to try them out, but only once. They weren’t bad, but I don’t see the need for them. On a related note, what is the deal with Yogurt Blasted Pop Tarts? I suppose putting yogurt in a product is now supposed to make it seem more healthful from a marketing standpoint? What’s next? Yogurt blasted fried cheese sticks?

It most certainly was a good idea. I’d be willing to wager that 99.9% of the people who would consider going on a cruise ship don’t know or don’t care what the meaning of “Lust for Life” is.

If you’re not part of the target audience for the product, then your opinion of whether the choice of name, artwork or background music is appropriate simply doesn’t matter. Your approval won’t mean one dollar more in sales, and your derision won’t mean one dollar less, so why on earth should I (as a ad creator) care what you think? If the suburban 40-70 year-olds who actually buy the product think “Lust for Life” is a catchy little tune that makes them want to go on a cruise, then that’s what I’m going to use.