If anyone thinks that the Bible has virtue or a divine origin due to fulfilled prophesies, I recommend studying the “prophesies” of Nostradamus. James Randi has an excellent book on this subject, The Mask of Nostradamus. When you see how that medieval “seer” is misinterpreted and how he put together his verses, you may gain a valuable understanding on how the Bible’s prophecies seem to work.
In short, the “fulfillment” is mostly in the eye of the beholder.
But Randi is a known prestidigitator. How can we trust what he says?
John purports to be first-hand (minimally edited), and I’d defend the claim that it is. It’s true that it was written sometime between 30 and 60 years after the crucifixion, depending on whether you subscribe to conservative scholars or liberal ones, so you’re right that it doesn’t related ‘events as they are occurring’.
The clearest prophecies, for Christians, are the Old Testament prophecies of the Passion. Of course, you can get out of that by claiming that the entire Passion of Christ was a fiction concocted to seem like a fulfilled prophecy. I think that’s preposterous, personally (not least because even the Gnostics, who flatly denied the Old Testament, agreed that Jesus had been crucified), but I can’t prove it to you. There are relatively few events where 1) a biblical prophecy of an unlikely event was made no later than Date X, 2) at some later time, the unlikely event happens, and 3) the details are historically unambiguous.
Good point. What sounds like Wicked Awesome Prophecy to FriarTed and I, may not seem like a big deal to atheists, Jews, or members of other religions.
There’s a much easier way to get out of it. The prophecies can be interpreted as referring to other things entirely, and Christianity “pinned the tail on the donkey,” so to speak, claiming that a prophecy having to do with God turning his back on the Jews for failing to stick to the letter of the law “really” has to do with the sacrifice of Jesus.
As I mentioned earlier, some Christians try too hard to interpret OT stories in light of NT events. The ram with his head in a thicket is unlikely to be a meaningful presaging of Jesus’ crown of thorns. The lintels and posts of the doorways marked by blood, at the Passover, are not presaging of the upright and crosspiece of Jesus’ execution.
This kind of reasoning leads to the “Miraculous similarities between Lincoln and Kennedy.” It’s exegesis by shoe-horn.
Meh.
Acts is a formulaic work that ends with the Jews of Rome generally rejecting Paul’s words and the author summing it up that Paul was bringing the Word to the Gentiles by preaching in Rome, the heart of the Gentile empire.
The author claims that Paul “lived” two years in Rome without saying anything about what happened next. Under your scenario, he should have said “Paul has been living in Rome for two years.”
The work is not a biography of Paul, it is a narrative that uses Paul to show the spread of Christianity. No mention is made of Paul’s journey to Spain, for example, even though the text indicates that Paul is not still living in Rome.
I agree that we will not persuade each other, but your case just seems odd.
There were not ten Germanic tribes that brought down Rome.
Revelation says that the ten kings will fight with the Lamb and be overthrown. If those are Germanic kings, that did not happen.
Rome is described as being destroyed utterly, “and shall be found no more at all,” and that certainly never happened.
I have no idea where you got the notion that Revelation explains the History of Rome from 753 B.C.E. to 473 C.E. (For that matter, I have never seen 473 given as the Fall of Rome, which is usually given as 456 or 476.)
Easily explained in post #30: What you are claiming to be prophecies in the Old Testament are either so vague as to be literally useless or they weren’t meant to be prophecies at all…which puts them one step below Nostradamus’ nonsense.
There are several that haven’t been fulfilled yet–the rise of the Antichrist, the rebuilding of the temple, etc.
Did he guide the version of the King James Bible where it says thou shalt commit adultery? 
Anyhow, your version would work if the original had been lost. Unfortunately for you, we still have it and some of us (like my old Rabbi) understand it.
The temple’s already been rebuilt – it’s just called by a different name now.
The fact that it houses worshipers of a completely different religion is just one of those nasty “Gotcha ya!” tricks that God enjoys inflicting upon his children.
You jest, but I think Joseph Campbell was onto something when he noticed that Yahweh’s behavior perfectly fits that of a Trickster god. Turns out that many things in the bible, particularly from Genesis and Exodus, can be understood more if we realize that **Coyote **was the one pulling the strings.
I can try to satisfy you butterfiles … I’m sure it will bring mirth, but what the heck it’s a slow day after Easter lol
If the bible has false prophets then it has true prophets. Jeremiah was a prophet and the Lord spoke to him about false prophets.
Micah was a prophet also and spoke of false prophets:
St Peter explained the gift of prophesy: 2 Peter 1: 20-21
I have the gift of prophesy …
You must understand that prophesy is a very serious matter and it must be repeated in the same way it was given.
I remember one prophecy that sounded odd, but it was given to show how strong God really is and that until the appointed time comes He is the protector of Israel.
Prophecy: July 17th 2007
“If Iran should launch a missile towards Tel-Aviv it would land in Jordan”
This is a good thing of course unless you live in Jordan and shows the humor of God in order to prove this was God speaking he also said a hurricane would broach Texas.
A few months later September 14th 2007 a tropical storm became a hurricane: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Hurricane-s-rapid-growth-stuns-scientists-2522336.php
Hurricane Humberto broached Texas which had never in recorded history happened before that a hurricane came up within 24 hours from a tropical storm to a hurricane.
Prophecy: three years ago
“Hamas will hurt Israel so bad it will shock the world”
This is a bad thing that will happen to Israel of course, but it is allowed by God for his reason alone. You can’t add to prophecy, but you can try to understand it.
I am not a false prophet nor am I a proud one … prophesy is a gift.
I’m going to stop you right there. That is nothing more than illogical nonsense and has no place whatsoever in any debate on this (or any other) subject.
Why do I read this as if it’s sung by George Thorogood?
Looks like kanicbird has some competition.
Seriously I have never heard of a prophecy that I didn’t think: lame.
And I don’t generally have that reaction when reading religious texts. There’s something about the prophecies that comes across to me as especially fishy. And I feel that way about others too, like Nostradamus.
Every time I hear or read one, I think: that’s it? that’s the amazing prediction?
And the texts about prophecies cover that as well, saying well there will be plenty of people that mock prophecies or aren’t awed by them, because afterall that’s one of the ways you know that it’s true or right (not everyone can get it).
How many humble prophets in teh bible proclaim themselves prophets?
Define “humble” in this context.
Several of the prophets–most notably Isaiah, chapter 6–speak of being unworthy of the position, but being selected by God, regardless.
Mind you, I do not accept Mr Quatro’s claims, (getting wrong the notion of what prophecy is tends to make me doubt his calling), but you asked a specific question.
While a direct proclamation may be rare (IDK), they are far from humble speaking in the name of the Lord, rebuking Kings in the name of the Lord, example:.
[QUOTE=1 Chron 21,]
12 Jehoram received a letter from Elijah the prophet, which said:
“This is what the Lord, the God of your father David, says: ‘You have not followed the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah. 13 But you have followed the ways of the kings of Israel, and you have led Judah and the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves, just as the house of Ahab did. You have also murdered your own brothers, members of your own family, men who were better than you. 14 So now the Lord is about to strike your people, your sons, your wives and everything that is yours, with a heavy blow. 15 You yourself will be very ill with a lingering disease of the bowels, until the disease causes your bowels to come out.’”
[/QUOTE]