In my ongoing tilting at windmills in ATMB, a new proposal.
Here’s why:
It’s confusing where to start threads, often. Moderators get confused about where threads should go. The difference between Elections and GD is far from clear. And then things get moved from one to the other. Furthermore, IMHO and MPSIMS end up with threads about the same things that are being talked about in GD and Elections. And then stuff from GD gets moved to the Pit when moderators decide there’s not enough debate.
So start a new forum–or change the name of Elections–for discussions of current events. This can include venting, can include debate, can include opinions, can include predictions; the common thread will be that the discussion is around an event that’s making the news.
Great Debates will still have threads about how somebody has solved all ethical problems, or about whether organic agriculture is a good thing, or whether Jesus was really a penguin or whatever those proselytizing threads are about. MPSIMS will go back to being about personal stuff.
I think this will result in fewer threads about the same topic, less confusion about where to start threads, and fewer thread moves.
Ban on transgenders in the military–essentially a duplicate thread in MPSIMS of the discussion in GD that got moved to the Pit. First response?
Have a “current events” forum, and there’s no need to move a thread to the pit, to have a duplicate thread in a different forum, or to have folks frustrated by the constraints of the forum they’re in (except that presumably the rules against insulting other posters would remain).
I think “Politics” is too vague, and has too much overlap with Great Debates. Is debating abortion Politics or GD? What about universal health care? The necessity of a settlement on Mars?
Making it Current Events, and starting new threads based on a newsworthy event that’s just happened, makes things less ambiguous.
The purpose of the Elections forum is to put all the elections stuff (especially US election stuff) in one place so it doesn’t clog up the other forums. This may not seem necessary when we’re far from an election, but as soon as we get close, that forum is en fuego with new threads every few minutes.
The problem with Elections, as we’ve discussed many times, is that its shares a purpose with GD. From the Main page of this MB:
Elections: For discussion of elections and electoral politics, including strategy and tactics, political parties, individual races, political news, and politicians and public figures.
My emphasis. Delete that part, and all is well with the world.
With all due respect, that proposal looks like it would create more confusion about where to start a thread, since your new forum looks like a combo of GD + Elections + MPSIMS + IMHO + BBQ Pit.
I agree that things as they stand now can cause multiple threads on the same topic, but in different forums. I’m just not sure how to change that other than not deliberately causing an overlap in forum scope as we have now with Elections and GD.
The difference is that any thread based on a newsworthy current event would go in Current Events. If you want opinions about a current event, put it in current events. If you want to debate a current event, put it in current events. If you want to rant about a current event, put it in, you guessed it, current events.
I think it’d create a bright line, reduce duplicate threads, and reduce confusion.
I don’t know about that. If you look at the 1st page of GD right now, well over half the threads there are “Current Events”. I think that’s typical, so you’re going to end up with a forum that is a large subset of the entire MB, and then you’ll have to subdivide that forum into GD and Pit like forums, etc, so that it doesn’t get too unwieldy. You also will have to allow Pit type rules in that forum if you’re going to allow Pit type threads, and so you’ll likely be creating another BBQ Pit out of the whole thing. No?
I don’t see any need for subdivision. Much stuff will stay in GD. A lot of duplicate threads in different forums (“Here’s the GD thread about trans folk in the military! Here’s the MPSIMS thread on trans folk in the military! Here’s the ELections thread on trans folk in the military! Here’s the Pit thread…” you get the idea) can become one thread.
As for pit type threads, the rule against insulting others is the main one that gets relaxed in the pit. There’s no reason to relax that one in Current Events.
Honestly, I dislike certain mods’ approach of declaring something a rant and moving it to the pit; I think it makes more sense to keep the pit primarily for insulting other posters, its original purpose.
Was that it’s Original purpose? The Forum description says:
For rants about the world or beefs with another poster. Comments and complaints about SDMB administration should go in About This Message Board.
Did it used to leave out the first part? I notice you said “primarily” and not “exclusively”, but there would be no way to enforce the former situation, so it would have to be the latter or just let it be whatever it is.
Here’s the way I see it (for whatever that’s worth): If you don’t want your thread moved to the Pit, don’t poison the well or otherwise encourage a rant. I honestly don’t think that’s so difficult to do.
Where I’m with you, is moving a thread to the Pit when the OP is genuinely Debate-focused (and not Rant-focused), but gets hijacked by posters into a Pit-type thread. In that case, I’d prefer the mods noted or warned the offending posters, and let the thread stay in the non-Pit thread where it was started.
I’m usually the one speaking out against changes to the Elections forum… but in this case, I think it might make sense. Folks have long noted that it seems kind of odd for breaking-news threads about very serious unfolding events to go in the “mundane and pointless” forum. On the other hand, with the system as we have now, the “breaking news” threads are kept basically free of politicking, which some might prefer.
When you say “it”, what do you mean? That is, which change are you endorsing? There are several being discussed in this thread. Or, maybe you just think some change is needed, but not sure exactly what that change is?
IMO this is NOT a good idea. I’d much rather have 4 threads in 4 forums on the same topic.
One thread abiding by the rules that everybody be nice, one abiding to the rules that everyone argue cogently, and one abiding by the rule of the jungle; the guy with the biggest curse words wins.
And finally one abiding by the Iron Rule of 2017: whatever the event is, Trump either caused it or failed to cause it and either yuugely improved it or totally wrecked it.
THAT’s the distinction between forums that matters to me.
Here are my personal thoughts, for what it’s worth. I already view Elections as a mash up of current events that are political in nature among other topics. Ongoing threads about Trump and Russians, political dynasties, general political strategies and tactics, etc. are like this and I think that’s fine. The forum description does say “political news”.
This accurately reflects my approach:
I try not to move threads unless it’s obvious they don’t belong. I think there will always be the possibility of duplicate threads in the Pit vs. other fora since the Pit rules are so different. But beyond Pit threads, having the threads go in the right place is mostly about organization and ease of readability, so I don’t find the idea of misplaced threads to be a big deal, excluding moves to the Pit.
If all mods are on board with your approach–if all mods will agree to give deference to where the OP chooses the thread, moving them only where it’s obvious they need to be moved instead of arguable that they need to be moved–that’ll remove two of the reasons for this proposal.
Thanks! IIRC, and it’s been a long damn time, when I joined the board the Pit was overwhelmingly for flaming other posters, or the mods or admins. The use of the pit for rants was relatively rarer, and moves from great debates to the pit simply because the mods thought the threads were insufficiently debatey were nearly nonexistent.
