I’ve just never found it to be particularly rational from an objective standpoint. Why should I feel a sense of accomplishment when I didn’t do anything just because someone who may or may not be distally related to me did something awesome? Conversely, why should I feel ashamed when I didn’t do anything just because someone who may or may not be distally related to me did something terrible?
Subjectively, however, it definitely has its utility. It can galvanize an oppressed people to action, overt expressions of it can prevent an oppressed people from being forgotten, it can contribute to unity, etc. But, like you said, it can, like any other tool, be used for evil ends. And like other tools, unless you provide something to fill in for the positives that tool can achieve, then there’s no effective argument to be made for discouraging it. Scientific knowledge has been used as a tool for some of the greatest good and greatest evil in our species’ history. And there simply isn’t anything to replace all the good we’ve derived from science that would justify discouraging it because things such as countless tools of mass destruction and varying degrees of existential dread because of these tools.
Years ago when they were first introducing black history month in the high schools, they had this idea at Turner High School in Kansas City Kansas to have a black pride event in the auditorium but the thing was, only black students would attend.
Well this upset the white kids and some of the black kids started chanting “Black Power” so the white kids retaliated with “White Power” and the school had a race riot.
Thing is it was the stupid adults in charge who had this wonderful idea of letting only the black students out of class. Otherwise the students actually were getting along pretty well.
I have also seen instances where in black history events they invite in a speaker whom they hadn’t properly checked out and the person starts on an anti-white message. Some white teachers and students have even boycotted or walked out of such events.
I know a man who when asked to fill out a form, refused to select the label “White”. He pointed out that it didnt match his Scottish heritage or background so after going round and round, they accepted him as a"Celtic-American".
My take on it, FWIW, is that the “pride” professed by oppressed minorities is more accurately described as “refusal to be ashamed.” That’s a good thing. Most non-whites/non-Christians have been told for centuries that they’re inferior, and their response, appropriately, is “Screw you - I have nothing to be ashamed of because of my appearance or culture.” This translates, for the sake of convenience, to the more succinct “pride.” Semantics, ultimately.
I am discomforted by the idea of people taking personal ‘pride’ (as in, expecting some sort of credit, recognition or kudos) for achievements made by others with whom they happen to share some kind of common ethnic ancestry; the implication is ‘ from [y] ethnicity/race did [z] wonderful thing. I am also of [y] ethnicity/race, therefore I must also have some of that same wonderfulness’. This is a dangerous, lazy and illogical mindset.
If you’re telling me women of Muslim heritage can feel pride in the hijab, a symbol of historic oppression against them, but I can’t feel pride for western secularism in which women do not suffer such oppression, you need to recalibrate everything upon which your morals reside.
This is the end result of identity politics completely subsuming the Left: sheer irrationalism and amorality.
I don’t see anything wrong with some limited form of racial or ethnic pride.
But one must be very careful lest one cross the line and slip from mere pride into the world of supremacists thinking. At that point you would be into the wrong.
I’ve met more than a few black people who I suspect–based on the things they say–harbor varying degrees of self-loathing, insecurity, and low expectations for themselves and others like them. I’m curious what experiences you’ve had that would make you think black people are healthier in this regard than other groups.
Personally, I think the real value of ethnic pride is more in the preservations of said ethnic heritage. If people are excited and proud of being part of a particular group, and it leads them to research, engage in and preserve that ethnic heritage, then more power to them, regardless of whether they’re oppressed or oppressor. Everyone wants to be part of something larger than themselves, and often their ethnicity is a convenient way for that to happen- it’s a way to build and foster community AND diversity. Wouldn’t we be better off as Americans if people celebrated their Cornish-ness, Welsh-ness, Provencal-ness, Bavarian-ism, Franconia-ism, etc… rather than generic German/English/Welsh-ness?
However, where it breaks down is when it’s used as a sort of way to make themselves feel superior, belittle others, or disregard whatever terrible things their particular ethnic group has done in the past, or continues to do in the present.
I mean it’s fine for someone of German descent to take pride in their German-ness and dress in lederhosen, drink beer, do traditional dances, etc… but it’s something altogether different if that leads them to whitewash things Germans have done in the past.
I also think it’s detrimental if this ethnic pride causes a sort of withdrawal, or “us vs. them” mentality among non-dominant groups. That also leads nowhere good.
I can only tell you that, in my experience, African Americans exhibit a level of confidence and self-esteem unmatched by any other American ethnic group.
Low self-esteem isn’t the problem among blacks. The problem is that the large majority of black children are born out of wedlock and raised without the long-term presence of a father figure. Being raised without a father correlates with practically every social pathology known to science. (You don’t need a cite for either of these statements.)
This could very well be a significant problem without changing the likelihood that racism in society is also a significant problem. If black children of wealthy and educated married parents still have a decreased likelihood of various successful outcomes than other children, one possible explanation is that society holds them back in various ways (i.e. societal racism).
This was certainly true for most of American history, and I think it’s reasonable to consider that it might be true to some degree today.
Sure, but I think that jumping to the conclusion that it HAS to be racism is also premature. It could very easily be issues of low expectations from peers and their immediate community or it could be pressure from peers to act a certain way, disdain certain things, and be enthusiastic about others. It could be the hoary old “crabs in a pot” trope even.
You’d have to control for that kind of thing WITHIN the black community before you can really definitively attribute it to external white racism. You’d have to do things like track the success of black children raised by successful, wealthy white families, or of children of black families living in overwhelmingly white communities, etc…
Now I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but that I tend to think that the bigger “drag” on black children probably comes from within their communities rather than from without these days.
Someone says, “I’m proud of being black” to agreement, someone says, “I’m proud of being Native American” to agreement, and so on round to the white man who says, “I’m proud of being white” whereupon everyone points and condemns him as a racist.
I prefer the one which goes “Race, Religion, Ethnic pride, Nationalism, etc do nothing but teach you how to hate people you’ve never met.”
