I think that you misread his post Chowder,he did say "The best bit "so its TBO.he was on about the South East.
If however he’d said the grim bit ,north of the Watford gap he may well have been referring to Manchester.
Patriotism is unnescicary, as are most forms of pride. To be patriotic inherently requires tossing all other nations below your own, in order to raise the country you live in above all others. You can love the current state of the nation, for what it’s doing or trying to do, but loving a country no matter what it’s doing to the rest of the world or it’s own people, choosing it’s own ideology to be supirior to all others simply because you were born there, makes the Kansas School Board seem (a little) less irational.
It’s the division of the world into states that makes the world inherently prone to war. Division of people into competing tribes, fiefdoms, states or what have you in an inherent source of conflict.
I’m reminded of the example of New Guinean tribes who were always figbhting until after WWII, when Australian authorities went around telling them they weren’t allowed to fight anymore. Almost without exception, they were relieved that they didn’t have to fight anymore.
I like the country I live in and I think I hit the lottery in that regard, but the world would probably be better off if we could find a way to break down national borders.
“Restoring” democracy to Iraq? Once you realize that they never had a functioning democracy, nor a culture conducive to democracy, you will realize what a difficult job this is. If patriotism blinded someone into believing that they could accomplish this easily, I think that would be a good example of its negative aspects.
I will never understand why so many people feel this way about pride. I don’t want to buy something built by someone who takes no pride in their work. Pride pushes us to work harder and produce better.
When I used to manage software engineers, there was a clear difference in quality between those who were proud of what they did and those who were just doing the job. When I taught, I could see it in my students’ work as well.
I believe that pride is a good thing.
Taking immense pride in one’s ethnic/religious origins, or tribalism if you want to call it that, while suppressing those in your country who don’t fit, is what generally leads to destruction. Taking pride in being a melting pot where everyone who works for common ideals is welcome, is a source of strength.
The latter has worked well for America, which has thrived despite episodes of jingoism* going back for more than a century.
I can understand the feeling among intellectuals that patriotism is shabby and embarassing. Professing that belief and showing contempt for people who do feel patriotic about America (as opposed to certain contemporary American policies) is political suicide, but lots of people don’t get that. Why let the war-shouters and people who want to clamp down on liberties in the name of security monopolize the flag? Dumb.
What many outsiders probably don’t understand about the U.S. is that there is a great deal of identification with regions, states, localities and even neighborhoods. The difference is that in the end, the concept of being an American overrides this.
While this is off-topic
the obvious rejoinder is well, duh. You’re actually surprised that a nation would act in its vital self-interest?
The key is to act intelligently in your self-interest, which often means taking interests beyond your borders into account.
*lest we forget, the term “jingoism” originated in Britain, which held together an empire for quite a few years, in part on the strength of patriotic fervor.