Protestors

[The_Llama]

I can’t believe I’m actually going to write this.

Not all of what PETA does is bad. They get an E for effort (and ethical) in the area of humane treatment for those animals that most of us believe should get ethical treatment. I was at a pet store, and the parrots there were in terrible, horrible conditions. I had no idea who to call. (parrots, btw, are my kryptonite.) I asked a friend who was into the whole vegan/animal rights thing, and she told me that calling PETA would help, because they have people that actually pursue legal action against such establishments. I called and reported, but I was too much of a wuss-ass to follow up and make sure it was taken care of. But it is kinda nice to know that there are psychos out there who will take up your cause for you if you are a wuss-ass.
That said, protests like the one in front of KFC are like the Green Peace boats that block whalers for a day. All of the money spent to get 15 minutes of whale protection could have been better spent seeking more permanent ways to end whale killing. (Whether or not you care about chicken deaths, or whale deaths, or not, it is just more logical to spend your money towards permanent stopping of actions, rather than just temporary.) And please don’t ask me how Green Peace was supposed to do this. I’m not familiar with international laws as they apply to the open sea, but they most certainly could lobby legal authorities to stop pirate whaling in domestic waters as a start. If that saved just 2 whales, it’s more than the whale they helped to get away from that particular chase.

[lezlers]

@Exgineer

You may also want to reconsider the “carnivore” cracks, as long as we’re on the subject of respect.

Considering I was referring to those who judge me and give me shit on the basis of my diet, respectfulness isn’t really a factor. Did I refer to all meat eaters as Joe Random Carnivore? No, I didn’t. I was speaking of those who show me a lack of respect first.

As for the rest of your post, what mhendo said.

[bare]

@HeyHomie

Yesterday I drove by a handful of flea-infested hippies protesting KFC. They had signs and a megaphone and a rope with a bunch of rubber chickens hanging from it. Seriously, do these people have so little going on in their lives that this is what they do in their free time?

What is the difference between supposedly flea-bitten protestors at a KFC and YOU protesting their protest?

Seriously, do you have so little going on in your life that this is what you do in your free time?

Who do you think will influence more folks, people willing to protest in person, or an anonymous someone posting to a message board?

[Yeticus_Rex]

I’m boycotting KFC because their chicken is too damn greasy…but I will eat 2 Carl’s Jr. Western Bacon Chicken Sandwiches in protest.

[Exgineer]

@lezlers

As for the rest of your post, what mhendo said.

Was my post really that unclear?
I believe that the vast majority of vegetarians are sane, reasonable people who have no national organization to speak for them. This is a sane, reasonable state of affairs, because what you decide to eat for dinner really isn’t a point of contention for sane reasonable people. I also believe that the proportion of insane people to normal ones is the same for vegetarians and omnivores (not carnivores).

That doesn’t change the fact that there are some truly psychotic people in PETA and the other “Meat is Murder, Passing Out Buckets Of Blood And Gruesome Comic Books To Children” groups who couldn’t be more obnoxious if they were actively trying to alienate people. Furthermore, these people are, implicitly if not explicitly, positioning themselves as the spokespeople for vegetarians everywhere. That’s your problem. I really don’t understand why mhendo got so pissy. You yourself said:

*Ugh. I’m vegan and these PETA fools make me wanna throw raw meat at 'em.

These are the morons that lead many carnivores to believe it’s perfectly okay to begin lambasting and interrogating a vegan or vegetarian upon being informed of their diet instead of just leaving them the fuck alone to enjoy their veggies in peace, which is all they really want.

Rat bastards.*

which is pretty much the same thing I said.

As to the “carnivore” thing, that last quote does not make it at all clear that you are applying the term exclusively to the weirdos who harrangue you about your dietary choices out of a clear blue sky, and in fact strongly implies otherwise. It doesn’t help that “carnivore” is usually delivered with sneering comtempt by the PETA types. It doesn’t take a whole lot of thought to realize that if you don’t want to be associated with them you shouldn’t emulate them, even in seemingly trivial matters.

Finally, it seems to me that anybody, vegetarian or no, who has that much emotionally invested in his friggin’ diet is probably a complete screwball anyway.

[mhendo]

@Exgineer

I really don’t understand why mhendo got so pissy.

I wasn’t “pissy.” I was just pointing out a simple fact.

You stated that we vegetarians “get stuck dealing with negative image they’ve [PETA] created,” and you also said in your most recent post, “Furthermore, these people are, implicitly if not explicitly, positioning themselves as the spokespeople for vegetarians everywhere. That’s your problem.”

The fact that they might be positioning themselves as spokespeople for vegetarians does not mean that they are, in fact, the representatives of all vegetarians. And, in my opinion, it’s not “our problem” if some dullwitted individuals can’t work that out.

[Exgineer]

I think we’ve just been talking past each other.

You realize that those who are too dumb to figure out that PETA doesn’t represent all vegetarians, or who just don’t care, are a very small minority right? The irrational screaming and hollering comes from a small number of people of both stripes.

This kind of crap didn’t just pop up from nowhere, though. There’s a confrontation atmosphere surrounding these twits, and I believe that groups like PETA are primarily responsible for it.

[BrotherCadfael]

@Liberal

When did “hippie” become a pejorative. If it weren’t for hippies, America wouldn’t be what it is today. How about a little credit where credit is due?

Yes, during the '60s, the old farts definitely used “hippie” as a pejorative to express their general disgust at the way “those kids” were behaving. Whether or not the behavior warranted disgust or admiration is a discussion for another day.

However, there are other reasons to look askance at TODAY’s hippies. First, present-day hippies come in two flavors: those who were hippies in the '60s and have never moved past that stage, and those who weren’t born until the '60s were twenty years gone, who nontheless adopt the attitudes, dress, and manners of a culture now almost 40 years old.

Both groups are somewhat pathetic. The oldsters are a bit less so… you can still respect at least some of their convictions, while noting that most people from that day managed to grow as they aged, adopting different, and frequently far more effective, means of advocacy as they matured and worked their way into positions of influence. However, they are as frozen into place as an elderly American Legion member who served for a few months at the end of WWII and spent the rest of his life boring everyone in sight with his war stories.

This young ones, on the other hand, are really pathetic. Again, in some cases you can admire their convictions, but surely there is something odd about a person who apes popular culture from 40 years in the past? And who thinks that this confers some “authenticity”? Consider what a '60s hippie would have made about a person his or her own age who adopted the attitudes, style, and clothing of a '20s Jazz-age hipster in a zoot suit with a reet pleat who related everything in the current world to the evils of Prohibition. Whether or not this person had anything serious to contribute to the dialog, he would have been rightly considered a loser, if not a lunatic.

This is not to denigrate current-day activists who look and sound as if they belong in the present day. I may agree or disagree with their positions, and, if they make a good argument, I will seriously consider what they have to say. But the '60s refugees (authentic or posers), just make me roll my eyes and think “There they go again!”.

I imagine that I am not alone in this respect.

[HeyHomie]

@bare

What is the difference between supposedly flea-bitten protestors at a KFC and YOU protesting their protest?

Seriously, do you have so little going on in your life that this is what you do in your free time?

Who do you think will influence more folks, people willing to protest in person, or an anonymous someone posting to a message board?

I’m not protesting their protest. I wrote a text-based message about how silly it is. My total expenditure of time and effort in the matter has, so far, amounted to about 45 seconds’ worth of work. Their protest, OTOH, took them away from their jobs (assuming they had them), made a big public spectacle, and probably disrupted business at a local establishment. Big difference, no?

[HeyHomie]

@BrotherCadfael

This is not to denigrate current-day activists who look and sound as if they belong in the present day. I may agree or disagree with their positions, and, if they make a good argument, I will seriously consider what they have to say. But the '60s refugees (authentic or posers), just make me roll my eyes and think “There they go again!”.

I imagine that I am not alone in this respect.

No, you are not alone.

The thing about protesting, as far as I see it, is that there are always better ways to further your cause than by making noise. The Montgomery bus boycott, for example. The law that forced blacks to move to the back of the bus wasn’t repealed because a bunch of people held signs and shouted slogans; it was repealed because people walked to work instead of taking the bus and the Montgomery bus system nearly went broke.

Another example (lest one think I’m singling out left-wing causes): abortion protests. I think that anyone who stands in front of an abortion clinic with signs denouncing abortion should be bussed over to the nearest crisis pregnancy center. Once there, they can help clean up; or rock some of the babies; or take some of the moms to job interviews; or even write a check.

My point is, do something positive and worthwhile with your time, rather than making noise. Those PETA types obviously love animals, and I’m sure the local animal shelters would have welcomed some volunteers with open arms.

[Troy_McClure_SF]

@HeyHomie

…made a big public spectacle, and probably disrupted business at a local establishment.

You do realize that that’s the whole point, don’t you?

[lezlers]

@Exgineer

Was my post really that unclear?

Your post was clear, however the point you’re trying to make is becoming muddier by the minute.

I believe that the vast majority of vegetarians are sane, reasonable people who have no national organization to speak for them. This is a sane, reasonable state of affairs, because what you decide to eat for dinner really isn’t a point of contention for sane reasonable people. I also believe that the proportion of insane people to normal ones is the same for vegetarians and omnivores (not carnivores).

Okay, I’m with you. Until this:

Furthermore, these people are, implicitly if not explicitly, positioning themselves as the spokespeople for vegetarians everywhere. That’s your problem.

Excuse me? How is it my problem? I wasn’t aware that the extremests of any group were the problem of the majority. Besides, PETA isn’t really in the same group as vegetarians since PETA is an animal rights group and there is a variety of reasons why people become vegetarians other than for animal rights. So even if you were somehow able to justify that statement, it’s pretty much a moot point. PETA’s are most certainly not representatives of vegetarians. That’s like saying Fred Phelps and his ilk are representatives of all religious people, Jewish and Christian alike.

As to the “carnivore” thing, that last quote does not make it at all clear that you are applying the term exclusively to the weirdos who harrangue you about your dietary choices out of a clear blue sky, and in fact strongly implies otherwise. It doesn’t help that “carnivore” is usually delivered with sneering comtempt by the PETA types. It doesn’t take a whole lot of thought to realize that if you don’t want to be associated with them you shouldn’t emulate them, even in seemingly trivial matters.

Right. So if you’re describing those PETA protestors as lunatics or something of that nature, I should take it that you’re emulating those “weirdos” who harrangue me about my dietary choices out of the clear blue sky? I mean, those people refer to PETA as a bunch of lunatics, so that means that anyone else does is emulating them, right?

Finally, it seems to me that anybody, vegetarian or no, who has that much emotionally invested in his friggin’ diet is probably a complete screwball anyway.

Newsflash: PETA stands for “People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals”. It’s not a diet. Which, as I mentioned above, makes you calling them my problem, simply because I’m vegan, totally ridiculous.